Stan Shannon wrote: Even the laziest bum will do something productive if he knows he will starve otherwise. This time what I'm going to say is entirely my opinion. I don't think you're right. Australia has a multitude of lazy bums who would rather line up for a dole payment, drink and smoke half of it, then take their health care card to their public housing with cable TV and three computers, then sit on their dirty old couch and complain about how other people have it better than them, and it's 'just not fair'. Society as a whole has decided that blame is bad - schools can't even fail a student, the lowest mark is 'does not YET meet expectations'. I'm sorry, but I'd rather they tell my kid flat out if they are stupid, or if they do not try. Instead, everyone is being raised to believe that nothing is their fault, and when it's all gone to hell in a handbasket, it won't be anyones fault, I guess.... Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002