Well I'll have to get back to you on the good bits... The VS2010PROMSDN download is at 95% now... :)

I agree completely - again, in my CS program (at least the path/electives that the Majority of ppl take across the Uni's that I've been exposed to) there isnt a real focus on those Highly Complex Algebraic questions, nor how they directly related to performance/limitations... In fact, the connections are rarely pointed out; you sort of are left to stumble across them yourself. Problem with that approach is, the kids straight out of high school, dont always make those connections (I'm a 'late bloomer', with a good few years experience under my belt, thankfully!)... I regret not getting more into Maths the first time I was at Uni (1994); all those years on the Mathematical sidelines since High School has again proven that Maths is a perishable skill. I LOVE Practical Discrete Maths, its awesome; but when it comes to Calculus and that high level maths knowledge (Proofs), I'm like most CS guys - its core, so we do what we have to do to get over the hurdle... It would have been nice to have done a Math Major or B.Math straight out of High School.

Point 1: Agreed! It's really not written that well - I think the guy has tried to be too Generic. Point 2: Agreed - with a small picky point. In this instance a 'complex' algorithm defines an algorithm of or beyond a given complexity (however what that level is, is not really clear!). So if you UNDERSTAND what you have modeled and proven and written it up in a logical and correct manner, your 'complex' algorithm shouldn't be that [i]complex[/i] to you or your target audience...

Hmmm, I'm a CS student and I must say, my mates who are doing/have done B.Math DEFINATLY work harder than I have to! As for the math content I'm faced it, I consider myself lucky that I'm faced with so little COMPULSORY 'pure' math (Analytical Geometry in R2 and R3, Advanced Calculus - I don't deal as well with Calculus)... However, we do a LOT of Algorithmics/Discrete Maths (which I have NO problem with; I LIKE Discrete Maths... It just makes sense!). So while we can basically do the better part of a Maths Degree IF WE WANT TO (like a mate of mine did, then did 6 months after he finished CS to get his B.Math), the majority of students end up on a different path... As i said, all of us do a lot of Discrete Maths/Algorithmics, but then we add stuff like Electrical Engineering/Digital Systems, 3D Graphics, Distributed/Parallel Systems... Me, I lean more towards the Distributed?Parallel stuff at the moment. Thus I do have a few other things to contribute... :) I read this article as something that should get you considering your limits! For me, I'm into Exterior Ballistics (yes I'm a Target Shooter and NO I do not consider Exterior Ballistics as COMPLEX maths in any way, shape or form), so I'm pretty comfortable with much of that maths; on paper and in code. But If I was suddenly tasked with developing something heavy, (for arguments sake) an algorithm that was able to plan the tradjectory of a space craft from Low Earth Orbit, into a slingshot around the moon and then off to Mars, there is no way I could fudge my way through that; I would stand up and say "My Analysis of the Requirements leads me to recommend we bring in an Astrophysicist/Mathematician for the maths (and a Dr specialising in Aviation Medicine to verify that that the expected flight limits and possible flight loads are within Human Tolerance)". I think its naive to think that because we have been exposed to SOME University Level Maths and Algorithmics, that we can automatically scale that knowledge to Complex Algorithms. How many people have actually taken months or more to research, develop and PROVE a complex mathematical model? By this I mean something like i) starting with a General Concept (ie, lets develop a highly efficient, secure A/V compression scheme for Transmission across Public IP networks) and nothing more... Then ii) research the field and begin to develop a Mathematical Model; iii) write your Mathematical Algorithm and PROVE it. And do all of that before you code it... A 'Complex Algorithm' as defined by this artic

Windows 3 Family : NT3.51 (as well as the Windows 3.x family) Windows 4 Family : NT4 (and the 95/98/Me family) Windows 5 Family : Windows 2000 (NT5) and our beloved Windows XP (NT5.1) Windows 6 Family : Vista... Need we say more, beyond pointing out what it says if you STUTTER it? (6-6-6) And lets face it, Vista stuttered a lot! Windows 7 Family : FINALLY we're back to the Logical, Numerical Versioning we lost with NT4 (despite the build indicator '6.1') Ah SH|T, now I see a bunch of ppl's answered before me... Stupid forum thing!

My contribution to this is.... STRESS LEAVE! You're feeling trapped, underpaided, overworked and not exercising your '.NET-Guru' skills... Don't be a prick about it, just take a few weeks off (I'm sure you Dr and you can sort that out) and when you're employer asks why, just tell them that "You're feeling trapped, underpaided, overworked and not exercising your '.NET-Guru' skills"...

For me its not just sites, but also Books, Adverts (ie, Posters/Flyers/Banners, etc) and etc. If I come across GLARING mis-use of Her Majesties English, I tend to just disregard whatever it is that I'm being exposed to (despite my own slight disability with proper grammar). I even find the use of 'color' over 'colour' somewhat grating; alas, I have had to learn to live with that one (primarily because EVERY programming language I can think of goes there!). Other pet hates: * 'One Time' - "I saw this guy at the shops, ONE TIME..." * 'then/than' - "12 is bigger THEN 10." * 'I was Like' - "And I was like, 'Oh My God'..." * 'Defense' - Its actually DEFENCE * 'Aluminum' - what happened to the 'i'?? ALUMINIUM * and of course the pronunciation of abbreviation like LOL ('loll') or ROFLMAO (Roffel-mao) Jesus Christ, even the spell-checker here at Uni is against me! It actually recognises LOL and ROFLMAO, while telling me that 'recognise' is wrong! - now I'm annoyed, so I will stop here. I completely understand that all Language is in a constant state of evolution; this evolution is typically the result of interacting with other languages/cultures and the need to increase the level of clarity within communication. While the changes in spelling are understandable (even if I do not approve) my problem is that the more recent evolutions in 'bastardised English' are introducing ambiguity into the language (eg, 'You aint got shit coming' does that mean I'm not getting shit or I am getting shit? Or 'This is better THEN that' - if that like an If-Then condition or are they just saying then when they mean THAN?). But at the end of the day, its language and culture - so its a case of adapt or die!

Nothing beats the White-Board for nutting out the initial stuff - sometimes I go to the effort of pencil and paper when I don't have a white-board close at hand, but either way, the pen comes first! Then if the project is anything more complex than a hand full of classes (ie, my 3rd Year CompSci projects are all 4-6 classes), the sketches and class attributes lists will find their way into something like Rational Rose, so you can map the relationships and begin to develop (or verify) the class/method specifications you have come up with (personally, I find this is best done with a few Sequence Diagrams; I just despise Collaboration Diagrams). Then you can just dump out a code framework, with comments, and go from there.. But seriously, going from IDEA to IDE is madness... There needs to be time AWAY from from a keyboard before you get stuck in - its a MAJOR problem I see here at Uni (I had a number of years of 'real-world' experience before coming back to uni); the kids are just not taught how to effectively plan and design; they're taught the syntax and how to use O-O concepts. The White-Board (for me anyway) is the only real place to start...

Exactly - the plumber charges $300-$400 to fix a pipe in 2-3Hrs (sure Ok, it may not smell good); but you try charging $300-$400 for the same amount of time spent re-installing Windows, Patching, installing Office and setting the machine back up to see the Home Network! People a lot happier to give their money to the plumber. They understand that they plumber has 'learnt a trade' and has developed the skills to do the job! Alternatively, people seem to think that IT/SE professionals don't need to be trained and just do what they do for fun... I had thought for a moment, it was simply that people don't understand what goes into things (ie, Training, Design, Skills, etc), but in general, most people also do not really understand what a Lawyer does, or what a Doctor does, or what an Architect does. If there was 'nothing to it' (like I've had ppl tell me when I was doing break fix or developing web apps), why didnt they do it themselves? Another point MAYBE that people do not understand the difference between a properly engineered solution and something hacked together in minimum time (ie, ignoring maintainability and expandability) or something designed for a different purpose - case in point, static HTML/CSS website against a Dynamic MySQL/PHP backed Web App. I have a client who has no idea what either really is; fortunately he trusts me enough to beleive what I tell him even if he doesn't really understand the process...

In a lecture today (3000-level Software Engineering), I was presented with an interesting aside buy our lecturer which has prompted me to post these thoughts here (particularly after having to read some really pathetic 'plz send codes' type posts here this evening. Within the Software Engineering 'world', I think it is fair to say that most of us understand the level of education, experience and skill that is required to succeed and thrive. But outside of our own little community, there seems to exists a culture of continually undervaluing the skills that most development professional bring to the party. The lecturer posed these comparisions (or something similiar); Lawyers, Plumbers, Fridge repairmen - people seem to have no problem paying these people hundreds of dollars per hour to sort out litigation, fix leaking septic pipes and keep things frozen! People also pay General Practicioners (Dr's) hundreds of Dollars per hour to tell them they have a cold or have sprained their ankles or etc... So why is it then, that people have a hard time parting with $$$ when it comes to IT/SE? Having worked in break-fix in the past, I have seen first hand how upset people get (who use their computers to work from home or run businesses) when you charge them $300-$500 to install a new HDD, Re-install Windows and their BASIC Productivity Apps. I've seen how businesses react when they come to YOU and ask for some manner of custom application and the quote they get is 10 times what they WANT to spend (eg, businesses wanting custom multi-user stock tracking systems for $500 and wanting it next week!)... Why does the general public seem to regard CompSci and SoftEng skills with such low regard? OK, we're not saving lives DIRECTLY like Dr's, but a world without Computer Scientists and Software Engineers will shunt us back to the Steam-driven Industrial Age. Then there is my pet peev; the leeching types (that we all see here, asking for 'plz send codes I n33d!!!!'; these ppl seem to expect the skills that many of the contributors here have spent YEARS developing, should instantly bend to these 'persons' wishes and do their school/uni/college/work assignment/task for them! So, am I just feeling unloved and vulnerable, or do others notice this? And if so, what is the solution?...

dan neely wrote:

Free to anyone, or just to IEEE student members?

I don't know; IEEE Student Members for sure, but as for full members, I don't know... Do we have any Full IEEE members here?

And don't forget, MS gives a LOT of stuff away to Students. Tertiary Students have been able to get VS Pro since 2003 (and most other apps, except Office; which would be really useful!) and now the program has been expanded to include High School and etc... You also get it for free once you join IEEE... Yeah, it seems MS really does give away a LOT of software to ppl learning the stuff; you only really have to pay once you start making commercial stuff with the apps...

Its always good to develop and test on all major OS versions you're developing for; so the question is, are you developing for XP or Vista or both? Suggestion: download the free MS Virtual PC 2007. Install EITHER XP or Vista, then Virtual PC. Now create a Virtual Machines and install Vista or XP then VS; back up the images onto a removable HDD (so if ever your dev environment goes south again, you can just restore a FRESH copy) and there you go! Honestly, doing dev (and pretty much anything actually) on a VM just makes sense; you can hose the whole install and ten minutes later, be booting a fresh VM and be back to work! Best of all, its not going to cost you any money (assuming you have a legit XP on hand). Yes, it is a hassle installing an OS, then an OS and then an OS (with whatever software you want), BUT its pretty much a one time deal - once its done, its done! And if you back up properly, recovery is EASY... So, do you need Vista? I'd probably say yes if your apps are supposed to run on Vista; but Virtualising Vista is pretty easy.

Ah OK, then your B.CS sounds more like my B.Software Engineering or even B.Computer Engineering. We do the same math as B.Software Eng, but the B.Computer Eng guys have go do the Physics and HEAVIER maths again! Tis why I'm NOT jumping to Combined Computer Eng/CS - Maths is proving my weakness this time thru school! And just to re-iterate what I said earlier (now that Im awake), dont pay any attention to ppl who want to bag you out for CS. As other here have said also, the 'difficulty' of one degree program to another is relative to the person.

Ummmm, WHAT?!?!? OK, maybe Im gifted (I am sitting on a HD GPA; tho I suspect I'm going to blow that next semester with the next Maths I have to do), but CS being one of the most difficult programs? OK, its definately harder core than IT (Bah, we all Laugh at IT undergrads), but lets see, its NOT B.Med and its NOT B.Law (I have good friends in both and they do a WHOLE lot more work than me)... Its not even Engineering (to which I am jumping to shortly; well combined CS/Engineering)... So really, CS isnt that diffcult... Maybe its one of the more difficult three year programs, but yeah the 4 and 5 year programs make CS look simple as p|ss! From my experience, difficult is stuff like Engineering Mechatronics, Computer or Electrical - those guys have to do a LOT more Physics and Maths than us CS/Software Engineering types! Still at the end of the day, how hard a program is, is RELATIVE! To me, Bachelor of Medicine is IMPOSSIBLE - not so much the content, but the COMMITMENT (You have to LIVE and BREATH that subject, every single day for 6-7 years)... To me B.Law is IMPOSSIBLE - I just couldn't hack all the Reading and Writing Essay after Essay... B.Math or B.Physics - FORGET IT GUYS!! BUT the reverse also holds true. The B.Law and B.Med guys look at what I'm doing and the have NO idea... to them what I am doing is Impossible (exception, one of the Maths guys, but he did combined B.Math/B.CS) To our original poster though, FORGET IT! Life is full of ppl who want to tell you they're better than you for X, Y and Z reason! most of the time, they're telling you that sh|t to massage theyre own ego... Be happy with CS (I am)... Its fun! And realistically (at least where I am) a good stepping stone to one of the B.Engineering degree's or a combined Degree (as I said above, Im about to jump to combined B.CS/Software Engineering)... Enjoy it... And do as much digital circuit design as you can - its just plain fun!

Everyone has their own styles and 'work-flow'. I guess for me, Rose fits better into my work-flow and style (which admittedly is very biased towards 'design it all first' so that coding becomes almost a clerical excercise!). First Visio I REALLY had a good play with was 2005. I used Rose from before the 2003 version, but that version (2003) was the first one I really used to generate code from (could earlier versions of Rose dump out code, anyone?). I was pretty bummed out with Visio really, but one can't overlook the fact that I know Rose well and Visio just wasn't Rose-like enough for me? Still, for me, I would recommend Rose to people. For me its the tool that I use and feel most comfortable with.

I know the Photoshop SDK very well... ;)

This may not be a popular thing to say here (Judging by what ive read below) but Visio? Seriously? I tried Visio a while back, but found it to be hard to use, slow and of course in true MS style, didnt use the defined UML standards for a few things... I used Rational Rose Enterprise version, and to be blunt, its brilliant. The problem with Rose is, its expensive, but otherwise, In my opinion, makes mince meat out of Visio. Now I'm not sure if Visio does this, but the whole ability to generated C++ code back in the 2003 version, direct from your model was awesome; creating Sequence Diagrams from drag and drop i found better than Visio and even designing Database Schema's (which Rose will then dump out as SQL code, so creating what youve designed takes as long as the SQL code takes to run!) What I found Rose 2003 (and of course Visio 2005) lacking, was little support for Tests and in the case of Rose 2003 (i dont know if Visio can do this) not being able to 'insert' code into a method, which would appear when the method was later generated. Still, if youre looking for a SERIOUS UML Tool, you have to at least try Rose; it has a steep learning curve, but nothing you shouldnt be able to figure out assuming you know the basic's of UML (in my case, I vary rarely use more than Class Interaction Diagrams and Sequence Diagrams to establish my relationships and thus define my classes and methods)...