I Find It Interesting...
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In my experience it's the guys that are the least likely to accept constructive criticism (that is valid, not flaming) that end up being the programmers I have to clean up after. In my experience, some 'older and wiser' types are just posers that are getting by on the experience printed on their resume rather than what they actually know.
amclint wrote:
In my experience, some 'older and wiser' types are just posers that are getting by on the experience printed on their resume rather than what they actually know.
And some "younger and hipper" types are just riding the bleeding edge, always jumping to the next New Thing before there's time to recognize that their fascination with The New masks a lack of understanding of The Old. Aaand... there are plenty who fall into neither category. Myself, for instance - i'm equally incompetent in both old and new technologies... ;P
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siskhoalanka wrote:
Do you realize how pedantic you are?
I think "pedantic" is not the proper word for what you wanted to say. "Arrogant" is probably what you meant. In English, "Pedantic" is when someone pays a little too much attention to details, whereas in Spanish, "pedante" is someone who's obnoxiously arrogant. Sorry for being pedantic. :-) Alvaro
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR, 1933 The only thing we have to sell is fear itself. - GOP, 2006
I'm old - I'm allowed to be arrogant.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
RPG
World of Warcraft is the best RPG-app (Actually I haven't heard of a language called RPG... probably wayyyy before my time)
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
~ Web SQL Utility - asp.net app to query Access, SQL server, MySQL. Stores history, favourites.
Ashley van Gerven wrote:
Actually I haven't heard of a language called RPG... probably wayyyy before my time)
Yikes! :wtf: Now *I* feel old...! :)
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I find it interesting that 1 - your list starts at 0 :-) 2 - anyone would ridicule you for using CP :confused: 3 - you have misunderstood my comments on VC6 after the many times we have discussed it. The compiler is a disaster. If you can work within it's limitations, then fine. I did, too, ( well, I used STL enough to put a decent STL in there ), I also did a lot of VC6 projects ( and in fact have to make all my toolkit code VC6 compatible ). Your position appears to be that walking 20 miles to work every day is not inefficient, just because you can do it. My position is that driving is easier. :-) 4 - I see no problem with using .NET, but I also don't see a problem with NOT using it. Anyone who wants to say there is only one way to do things, is obviously lost at sea.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
RPG
World of Warcraft is the best RPG-app (Actually I haven't heard of a language called RPG... probably wayyyy before my time)
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
~ Web SQL Utility - asp.net app to query Access, SQL server, MySQL. Stores history, favourites.
It's a reporting language used mostly on mainframes and minis.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Making a point about VC6, is all. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Only an idiot would suggest that VC6 was somehow incapable of creating ANY sort of exe. I thought we were talking about which tool supported the developer more, not which was somehow able to create an exe. That would just be dumb. Sounds like you've done some cool stuff tho :-)
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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siskhoalanka wrote:
How old are you by the way?
I'm over 50... :/ I work for a living. I don't have time to study and therefore I have to learn as I go. When you get older, your priorities change. I used to be like you young guys - eager for the next meaningful leap in programming technology, but now I'm wondering why I spent all that time on crap that's always changing - and not necessarily for the better. I also have a life which really screws with my desire to learn something new on my own. Now with this DRM crap (even though I don't download music or movies), product activation (even though I buy all my software), security and privacy issues (even though I take all the steps I can to ensure it's kept secure and private), I simply don't really care to be part of the new technologies. I'm not so arrogant that I don't recognize that to remain employable I have to learn to code in a managed environment, but I don't have to like it, and I certainly don't have to say anything good about it. Requirements are, after all, requirements. Native code rules.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt.
Yeah, my constant putting down of Vista and C# is definitely earning me brownie points in Redmond :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogWhen did you put down C# ? ( and who isn't putting down Vista :P ) ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I find it interesting that 1 - your list starts at 0 :-) 2 - anyone would ridicule you for using CP :confused: 3 - you have misunderstood my comments on VC6 after the many times we have discussed it. The compiler is a disaster. If you can work within it's limitations, then fine. I did, too, ( well, I used STL enough to put a decent STL in there ), I also did a lot of VC6 projects ( and in fact have to make all my toolkit code VC6 compatible ). Your position appears to be that walking 20 miles to work every day is not inefficient, just because you can do it. My position is that driving is easier. :-) 4 - I see no problem with using .NET, but I also don't see a problem with NOT using it. Anyone who wants to say there is only one way to do things, is obviously lost at sea.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Don't all lists start with at the 0th index? My comment was actually just a friendly poke in the ribs (as was the one directed at Nish). I considered putting a smiley at the end of them, but I wanted the humor to appear more dry than a smiley would permit. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long.
Did ya do anything for your "Silver" anniversary? My 10th is coming up.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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I've had to fire more than one guy like you. They won't listen to reason because they _know better_, they've done this before and so by damn we're going to do it just they way they did before without any consideration of anything else.
Could they demonstrate that their way is better, or were they even given the chance? Or were they just incorrectly assumed to be difficult without them being given "consideration" due to increased wisdom and experience? (An all-to-common problem with older developers that have been-there-and-done-than and younger management that use Visual Studio magazine as their primary source of software development information.) Remember, these old-timers may have a good reason. Also remember that you do not have to know about it, let alone understand and agree with it, for it to be valid! Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
>>>Now with this DRM crap (even though I don't download music or movies), product activation (even though I buy all my software), security and privacy issues (even though I take all the steps I can to ensure it's kept secure and private),<<< No offense John, but you don't sound much like an outlaw to me. That is what makes me cringe at your post. How can someone over 50 still be strutting around calling himself an "outlaw"?
The current reasons are that I write unmanaged code that read data form INI files, and I'm not afraid to use pointers.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I'm old - I'm allowed to be arrogant.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP.
You are slipping John... ;) I've got Prolog, Lisp, Snobol, Cobol, RPG II/III/IV, Modula 2, and assembly on 4 processors as well as those. ;P And I am still leaving a few out. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. You are slipping John... I've got Prolog, Lisp, Snobol, Cobol, RPG II/III/IV, Modula 2, and assembly on 4 processors as well as those. And I am still leaving a few out.
Bah! That is nothing. I also program in Perl, Python, TCL/tk, AWK, Sed, LaTex, Ruby, Progress 4GL etc. I stopped counting at 30 languages :) jhaga
It would be glorious to see mankind at leisure for once. It is nothing but work, work, work. I cannot easily buy a blank-book to write thoughts in; they are commonly ruled for dollars and cents. A[man], seeing me making a minute in the fields, took it for granted that I was calculating my wages. — business! - I think that there is nothing, not even crime, more opposed to poetry, to philosophy, ay, to life itself, than this incessant business. Henry David Thoreau
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siskhoalanka wrote:
Do you realize how pedantic you are?
I'm obviously missing something because I don't see the pedantry.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
See, that's what happens when you come across a polysyllabic word and don't bother to look it up in a dictionary before using it :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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How about this - I've written real-time image and live video acquisition/transmission code with that compiler, and it's currently being used by pretty much every combat aircraft flying for the US that has the necessary hardware to run it. A sizable portion of the images we've all seen on TV of guided bombs hitting their targets in Iraq is provided by software that I wrote with VC6. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Heh, I'll be using this compiler this weekend to work on my side project in the never ending hope that I'll make progress. And yes, I own VS2003, but choose VC6 to write my personal stuff in. Granted I am a bit lonely for my C++. Working in C# every day at work is nice but...
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Don't all lists start with at the 0th index? My comment was actually just a friendly poke in the ribs (as was the one directed at Nish). I considered putting a smiley at the end of them, but I wanted the humor to appear more dry than a smiley would permit. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Don't all lists start with at the 0th index?
Yeah, for a programmer :P
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
but I wanted the humor to appear more dry than a smiley would permit.
Ah - OK. So, in the end, the humour was somewhat lost on a guy who got in from a concert at 1 am, woke at 5, raced to the airport and is sitting in the food court, trying to catch up on some work, fueled entirely by bad coffee ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I find it interesting that 1 - your list starts at 0 :-) 2 - anyone would ridicule you for using CP :confused: 3 - you have misunderstood my comments on VC6 after the many times we have discussed it. The compiler is a disaster. If you can work within it's limitations, then fine. I did, too, ( well, I used STL enough to put a decent STL in there ), I also did a lot of VC6 projects ( and in fact have to make all my toolkit code VC6 compatible ). Your position appears to be that walking 20 miles to work every day is not inefficient, just because you can do it. My position is that driving is easier. :-) 4 - I see no problem with using .NET, but I also don't see a problem with NOT using it. Anyone who wants to say there is only one way to do things, is obviously lost at sea.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
My position is that driving is easier. :)
Easier yes, but perhaps not always the best way to get there! :P Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands... :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands...
Nope, just more time under our belts.
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
It was arrogance to give him crap for using ini files. They're still in use by a lot of people. So arrogance in response to arrogance is fine in my book. Maybe not worthy of a new thread, but just fine.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder