I Find It Interesting...
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I find it interesting that 1 - your list starts at 0 :-) 2 - anyone would ridicule you for using CP :confused: 3 - you have misunderstood my comments on VC6 after the many times we have discussed it. The compiler is a disaster. If you can work within it's limitations, then fine. I did, too, ( well, I used STL enough to put a decent STL in there ), I also did a lot of VC6 projects ( and in fact have to make all my toolkit code VC6 compatible ). Your position appears to be that walking 20 miles to work every day is not inefficient, just because you can do it. My position is that driving is easier. :-) 4 - I see no problem with using .NET, but I also don't see a problem with NOT using it. Anyone who wants to say there is only one way to do things, is obviously lost at sea.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Don't all lists start with at the 0th index? My comment was actually just a friendly poke in the ribs (as was the one directed at Nish). I considered putting a smiley at the end of them, but I wanted the humor to appear more dry than a smiley would permit. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long.
Did ya do anything for your "Silver" anniversary? My 10th is coming up.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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>>>Now with this DRM crap (even though I don't download music or movies), product activation (even though I buy all my software), security and privacy issues (even though I take all the steps I can to ensure it's kept secure and private),<<< No offense John, but you don't sound much like an outlaw to me. That is what makes me cringe at your post. How can someone over 50 still be strutting around calling himself an "outlaw"?
The current reasons are that I write unmanaged code that read data form INI files, and I'm not afraid to use pointers.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I've had to fire more than one guy like you. They won't listen to reason because they _know better_, they've done this before and so by damn we're going to do it just they way they did before without any consideration of anything else.
Could they demonstrate that their way is better, or were they even given the chance? Or were they just incorrectly assumed to be difficult without them being given "consideration" due to increased wisdom and experience? (An all-to-common problem with older developers that have been-there-and-done-than and younger management that use Visual Studio magazine as their primary source of software development information.) Remember, these old-timers may have a good reason. Also remember that you do not have to know about it, let alone understand and agree with it, for it to be valid! Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
siskhoalanka wrote:
Do you realize how pedantic you are?
I'm obviously missing something because I don't see the pedantry.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
See, that's what happens when you come across a polysyllabic word and don't bother to look it up in a dictionary before using it :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP.
You are slipping John... ;) I've got Prolog, Lisp, Snobol, Cobol, RPG II/III/IV, Modula 2, and assembly on 4 processors as well as those. ;P And I am still leaving a few out. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. You are slipping John... I've got Prolog, Lisp, Snobol, Cobol, RPG II/III/IV, Modula 2, and assembly on 4 processors as well as those. And I am still leaving a few out.
Bah! That is nothing. I also program in Perl, Python, TCL/tk, AWK, Sed, LaTex, Ruby, Progress 4GL etc. I stopped counting at 30 languages :) jhaga
It would be glorious to see mankind at leisure for once. It is nothing but work, work, work. I cannot easily buy a blank-book to write thoughts in; they are commonly ruled for dollars and cents. A[man], seeing me making a minute in the fields, took it for granted that I was calculating my wages. — business! - I think that there is nothing, not even crime, more opposed to poetry, to philosophy, ay, to life itself, than this incessant business. Henry David Thoreau
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How about this - I've written real-time image and live video acquisition/transmission code with that compiler, and it's currently being used by pretty much every combat aircraft flying for the US that has the necessary hardware to run it. A sizable portion of the images we've all seen on TV of guided bombs hitting their targets in Iraq is provided by software that I wrote with VC6. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Heh, I'll be using this compiler this weekend to work on my side project in the never ending hope that I'll make progress. And yes, I own VS2003, but choose VC6 to write my personal stuff in. Granted I am a bit lonely for my C++. Working in C# every day at work is nice but...
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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I'm old - I'm allowed to be arrogant.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
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Don't all lists start with at the 0th index? My comment was actually just a friendly poke in the ribs (as was the one directed at Nish). I considered putting a smiley at the end of them, but I wanted the humor to appear more dry than a smiley would permit. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Don't all lists start with at the 0th index?
Yeah, for a programmer :P
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
but I wanted the humor to appear more dry than a smiley would permit.
Ah - OK. So, in the end, the humour was somewhat lost on a guy who got in from a concert at 1 am, woke at 5, raced to the airport and is sitting in the food court, trying to catch up on some work, fueled entirely by bad coffee ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I find it interesting that 1 - your list starts at 0 :-) 2 - anyone would ridicule you for using CP :confused: 3 - you have misunderstood my comments on VC6 after the many times we have discussed it. The compiler is a disaster. If you can work within it's limitations, then fine. I did, too, ( well, I used STL enough to put a decent STL in there ), I also did a lot of VC6 projects ( and in fact have to make all my toolkit code VC6 compatible ). Your position appears to be that walking 20 miles to work every day is not inefficient, just because you can do it. My position is that driving is easier. :-) 4 - I see no problem with using .NET, but I also don't see a problem with NOT using it. Anyone who wants to say there is only one way to do things, is obviously lost at sea.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
My position is that driving is easier. :)
Easier yes, but perhaps not always the best way to get there! :P Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands... :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands...
Nope, just more time under our belts.
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
It was arrogance to give him crap for using ini files. They're still in use by a lot of people. So arrogance in response to arrogance is fine in my book. Maybe not worthy of a new thread, but just fine.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP.
You are slipping John... ;) I've got Prolog, Lisp, Snobol, Cobol, RPG II/III/IV, Modula 2, and assembly on 4 processors as well as those. ;P And I am still leaving a few out. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yeah but can you program in Plain English? Pfft, thought not! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Well, how can you say you know more than guys that spend 80% of their free time in this? I mean, I don't know Cobol, RPG, Etc... But how many jobs will require me this today?
Because I used to do what they're doing now. For 12 years, I worked 16-hour days, and for about half of that, I worked 7 days a week. I soaked up everything I could. Now, I'm just tired of it. I'm not interested in learning anything that isn't directly related to the task at hand. I don't want to have to understand anything about other people's code beyond the fact that it "just works". The crap rolling out of Redmond simply doesn't inspire me. Trust me - end-users are ungrateful idiots that are never satisfied with any application they use, most project managers are clueless AND completely insane, and there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Of course, the young guys are bulletproof and too smart to listen to us old guys (I was too when I was their age).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Christian Graus wrote:
My position is that driving is easier. :)
Easier yes, but perhaps not always the best way to get there! :P Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!)All that is Gold Does Not Glitter...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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In my experience it's the guys that are the least likely to accept constructive criticism (that is valid, not flaming) that end up being the programmers I have to clean up after. In my experience, some 'older and wiser' types are just posers that are getting by on the experience printed on their resume rather than what they actually know.
What we are discussing here is Jon being heckled for using .ini files. I think your leaving the topic area just to bag on an "old guy". That wasn't constructive criticism. That was ridicule. There is a very big difference.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands...
Nope, just more time under our belts.
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
Under our *expanding* belts. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
The point of being arrogant is not just because one is old, it is because they have seen many new-fangled things come and also watched many of them go, and all of them came along with their own little collection of young pissants touting it talking about how it will be the "Next Great Thing". After a while, you kinda get tired of hearing it, especially when it comes from people that have not been writing real code long enough, or within a wide enough range, to truly understand what it takes to be the "Next Great Thing". Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
All that is Gold Does Not Glitter...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001