I Find It Interesting...
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...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP.
You are slipping John... ;) I've got Prolog, Lisp, Snobol, Cobol, RPG II/III/IV, Modula 2, and assembly on 4 processors as well as those. ;P And I am still leaving a few out. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yeah but can you program in Plain English? Pfft, thought not! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Christian Graus wrote:
My position is that driving is easier. :)
Easier yes, but perhaps not always the best way to get there! :P Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!)All that is Gold Does Not Glitter...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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In my experience it's the guys that are the least likely to accept constructive criticism (that is valid, not flaming) that end up being the programmers I have to clean up after. In my experience, some 'older and wiser' types are just posers that are getting by on the experience printed on their resume rather than what they actually know.
What we are discussing here is Jon being heckled for using .ini files. I think your leaving the topic area just to bag on an "old guy". That wasn't constructive criticism. That was ridicule. There is a very big difference.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Well, how can you say you know more than guys that spend 80% of their free time in this? I mean, I don't know Cobol, RPG, Etc... But how many jobs will require me this today?
Because I used to do what they're doing now. For 12 years, I worked 16-hour days, and for about half of that, I worked 7 days a week. I soaked up everything I could. Now, I'm just tired of it. I'm not interested in learning anything that isn't directly related to the task at hand. I don't want to have to understand anything about other people's code beyond the fact that it "just works". The crap rolling out of Redmond simply doesn't inspire me. Trust me - end-users are ungrateful idiots that are never satisfied with any application they use, most project managers are clueless AND completely insane, and there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Of course, the young guys are bulletproof and too smart to listen to us old guys (I was too when I was their age).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands...
Nope, just more time under our belts.
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
Under our *expanding* belts. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
The point of being arrogant is not just because one is old, it is because they have seen many new-fangled things come and also watched many of them go, and all of them came along with their own little collection of young pissants touting it talking about how it will be the "Next Great Thing". After a while, you kinda get tired of hearing it, especially when it comes from people that have not been writing real code long enough, or within a wide enough range, to truly understand what it takes to be the "Next Great Thing". Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long.
Did ya do anything for your "Silver" anniversary? My 10th is coming up.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
Yeah, I took a righteous dump and was happy to still be able to do so without medication. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Well, how can you say you know more than guys that spend 80% of their free time in this? I mean, I don't know Cobol, RPG, Etc... But how many jobs will require me this today?
And why does it cause you so much concern that someone doesn't like it?
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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All that is Gold Does Not Glitter...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
RPG
World of Warcraft is the best RPG-app (Actually I haven't heard of a language called RPG... probably wayyyy before my time)
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
~ Web SQL Utility - asp.net app to query Access, SQL server, MySQL. Stores history, favourites.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes
Even if you wouldn't have had those years of experience, there wouldn't be any reason to ridicule you for it. I think that you are using common sense (something that used to be common).
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself.
Traits of a true programmer, and the traits of a good employee.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
"New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology.
Exactly. I think the wheel is proof of that.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
I abhor it for the fact that it would render my apps basically unusable (CPU/resource constraints), and that would have adverse effects on my wallet. Besides, I'm waiting for all people to switch to managed code. I will cash in BIG the day when there's suddenly a big need for people who can write unmanaged code, and there are no unmanaged programmers. ;)
-- From the network that brought you "The Simpsons"
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Besides, I'm waiting for all people to switch to managed code. I will cash in BIG the day when there's suddenly a big need for people who can write unmanaged code, and there are no unmanaged programmers.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: *contemplating the usage of VC6 over the weekend* Don't mind if I join ya! :cool:
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
Man, that's just a sig waiting to happen.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Right next to this one: "Beat me, whip me, make me use uninitialized pointers..." ~ Christopher Duncan
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Never play leapfrog with a unicorn
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Never kiss a cat on the lips
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Christian Graus wrote:
My position is that driving is easier. :)
Easier yes, but perhaps not always the best way to get there! :P Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!)True - walking is better for you, and using a bad compiler is probably more interesting.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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You're just pissed off because you're not old enough to use the same disclaimer. Comments like "People still use INI files?" are NOT well received. Jeff, on the other hand asked why I selected the class I did over the one he mentioned, to which I gave a reasonable reply. Most of the people responding have less experience breathing than I have writing code, and their comments attract an appropriately weighted amount of consideration.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
You're just pissed off because you're not old enough to use the same disclaimer.
Why on earth would I be pissed off? I'm 38 years old and the first software I wrote for money was in 1982. It built and printed term life insurance tables for Sunlife of Canada (yes, I was 14).
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Comments like "People still use INI files?" are NOT well received.
Oh hell, when you throw around old but tried and true technology people are going to take pokes. Lighten up. If it works best for you then use it. Nobody really cares.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Most of the people responding have less experience breathing than I have writing code, and their comments attract an appropriately weighted amount of consideration.
Hey, if the old-timer knows best stuff works for you then that's great. Cheers, Drew.
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I learned Cobol, RPG, PL/1 and IBM 360 assembly language in college, but since I've never done any of that for money, I don't count it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001No one's adding Clipper to the list? A wonderful little C based language targeting dBase that you could dynamically generate code with in function parameters, kinda like the anonymous declarations that .NET is now supplying.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Could they demonstrate that their way is better, or were they even given the chance? Or were they just incorrectly assumed to be difficult without them being given "consideration" due to increased wisdom and experience? (An all-to-common problem with older developers that have been-there-and-done-than and younger management that use Visual Studio magazine as their primary source of software development information.) Remember, these old-timers may have a good reason. Also remember that you do not have to know about it, let alone understand and agree with it, for it to be valid! Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
Yeah but can you program in Plain English? Pfft, thought not! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
I don't think I know everything, and never once did I even suggest that I did. What I *did* imply is that I know how to select the appropriate tools for the job. You'd hate to have an employee like me? Your loss I suppose...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001