I Find It Interesting...
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I learned Cobol, RPG, PL/1 and IBM 360 assembly language in college, but since I've never done any of that for money, I don't count it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001No one's adding Clipper to the list? A wonderful little C based language targeting dBase that you could dynamically generate code with in function parameters, kinda like the anonymous declarations that .NET is now supplying.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Could they demonstrate that their way is better, or were they even given the chance? Or were they just incorrectly assumed to be difficult without them being given "consideration" due to increased wisdom and experience? (An all-to-common problem with older developers that have been-there-and-done-than and younger management that use Visual Studio magazine as their primary source of software development information.) Remember, these old-timers may have a good reason. Also remember that you do not have to know about it, let alone understand and agree with it, for it to be valid! Peace!
-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
Yeah but can you program in Plain English? Pfft, thought not! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
I don't think I know everything, and never once did I even suggest that I did. What I *did* imply is that I know how to select the appropriate tools for the job. You'd hate to have an employee like me? Your loss I suppose...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
In my experience it's the guys that are the least likely to accept constructive criticism (that is valid, not flaming) that end up being the programmers I have to clean up after. In my experience, some 'older and wiser' types are just posers that are getting by on the experience printed on their resume rather than what they actually know.
You'll make a great manager one day. Those guys are like you - they think they can easily recognize talent and expertise, when in all reality, they're just looking for someone they'll be able to blame when the crap hits the fan because the code sucks.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
You guys have waaaaaay too much time on your hands...
Nope, just more time under our belts.
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
You're still two years younger than me. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Right next to this one: "Beat me, whip me, make me use uninitialized pointers..." ~ Christopher Duncan
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
:laugh:
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Besides, I'm waiting for all people to switch to managed code. I will cash in BIG the day when there's suddenly a big need for people who can write unmanaged code, and there are no unmanaged programmers.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: *contemplating the usage of VC6 over the weekend* Don't mind if I join ya! :cool:
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
I may have to switch to VC6 if my other team member can't afford to buy VS2005 Standard Edition. S'okay. VC6 is an old friend.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Yeah but can you program in Plain English? Pfft, thought not! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
I heard there's a compiler for that. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I find it amazing that many people (not just here, but elsewhere) talk about how their chosen toolset/editor/IDE/etc. is the best, and that others just don't add up. I find a good analogy to these things is that it is like your toolbox - the more tools you have in the toolbox, the better and faster you can do a job. You might be able to pound a nail in with the butt of a screwdriver, but having a hammer makes it a lot easier. Same with development tools. As for me, I learned programming back in the late 80s with Turbo C, then moved on to embedded systems with no operating system, and more PC programming with Borland C++ and Delphi. Now, I do both managed (C#) and unmanaged (C/C++) programming on Windows. Each has its place. I have used many different compilers/toolsets for various jobs. I have to say - each one has its plusses and minuses all the way to the current VS2005. One place where I used managed code to supplement was in using offsets of dates and times. The C runtime doesn't have anything like that, but the .NET framework does, so I used it for that in our otherwise native code application. The .NET framework is just another tool that can be used or left in the toolbox. In some cases, it may make the job easier, like in my case above, in others it may not. As any programmer will know, it is their job to pick the tool that will get the job done in the easiest way (most bugfree, meeting customer requirements, etc.). The older I get though, the less I find it fun to learn the "new" technologies, since they always change. It also seems that as time goes by, it also changes a lot faster too! David
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If arrogance was a commodity, you'd be a rich man John. :) :)
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
Brilliant!
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
Not rich, but I am quite comfortable. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
You're just pissed off because you're not old enough to use the same disclaimer. Comments like "People still use INI files?" are NOT well received. Jeff, on the other hand asked why I selected the class I did over the one he mentioned, to which I gave a reasonable reply. Most of the people responding have less experience breathing than I have writing code, and their comments attract an appropriately weighted amount of consideration.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Comments like "People still use INI files?"
You know, that's kinda funny. But in a sad way, not a good way. Why? Because the "new, next best thing" uses config files. Now, isn't that just a fancier INI file. Tell the dumbass to go away and learn something new for a change. Right on, John!
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Yeah, I took a righteous dump and was happy to still be able to do so without medication. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I'm writing that down as a reference for accomplishment.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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amclint wrote:
In my experience, some 'older and wiser' types are just posers that are getting by on the experience printed on their resume rather than what they actually know.
And some "younger and hipper" types are just riding the bleeding edge, always jumping to the next New Thing before there's time to recognize that their fascination with The New masks a lack of understanding of The Old. Aaand... there are plenty who fall into neither category. Myself, for instance - i'm equally incompetent in both old and new technologies... ;P
Shog9 wrote:
some "younger and hipper" types are just riding the bleeding edge, always jumping to the next New Thing before there's time to recognize that their fascination with The New masks a lack of understanding of The Old.
Hey! I understand the Old just fine, thankyouverymuch. ;P
Oh geez... the forum keeps spinning... you'll take care o f it i'm sure, c'ause ... yeah, i neede this. *cough* anyway good job finding the bug.
-Shog9 on...a Firefox bug. -
I may have to switch to VC6 if my other team member can't afford to buy VS2005 Standard Edition. S'okay. VC6 is an old friend.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Yep. We jumped for Joy when it first came out. Much better than 5 was, which we also jumped for Joy when it came out as 4.5 just sucked (imo). I wonder if Joy was impressed with all the jumpin'. Of course the only real complaint at the time was template support, and that was mostly specializations which we weren't using. Oh, and for block var declarations not being restricted to the block. I'm alright with it. But my bias is the IDE not the compiler.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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...that my "CP Articles I'm Using" threads garner so many replies (not that I'm complaining) compared to those posted by other CP members. To give you guys a little heads up... 0) I've been programming since 1980 - yes - actually *writing code* for a living for that long. 1) I taught myself Basic, dBase, Pascal and C/C++, SQL, PHP, C#, Javascript, and ASP. 2) Given my years of experience, I see no valid reason for anyone to ridicule my choice of tools/classes - especially people who weren't even born by the time I started doing this stuff - I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, and I know how to pick the right tool for the job. 3) I do not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the code already exists, if it's applicable, if it works, and if it fulfills my very specific needs, you can bet I'll try to make use of it. Besides, I'm too lazy to research/write it myself. 4) "New" technology isn't necessarily the best or most appropriate technology. 5) As a rule, if Nish recommends it, I probably won't use it because his recommendation is more than likely based on a deference (translation: "sucking up") to the all-knowing wisdom of Microsoft. That dog just don't hunt. 6) I successfully use VC6 for a lot of projects just to prove that Christian is wrong about the inviability of that version of the compiler. 7) I write native code because I abhor the thought of 25mb runtime libraries, and if I wanted my code "managed" by Microsoft, I would be working there.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001You've got me beat by about 3 years for making money writing code, and I didn't start making a "living" at it until about 10 years after you did, but it seems I've taught my self and worked in a *lot* more languages and platforms than you have which may explain my point of view on .net. Applications I wrote on VC6 made some good money for me and are still in use to this day. Using existing code as you mention in number 3 is perfectly valid. It's almost criminal to *not* use or adapt existing code, at the very least stupid and irresponsible to whoever pays for a developers time. In my case I pay for my own time and I would fire myself if I wasted days looking for ways to re-invent wheels. Most of what you say I agree with but I have embraced .net 100% because from an un-emotional software architect and engineers point of view it's a perfect fit for the type of apps I'm doing. You're number 7 point kinda flies in the face of everything else you were trying to say. If you don't need it and it doesn't fit for what you do, fine, but to say you abhor the thought sounds a little more emotional than experienced or wise doesn't it? ;)
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Sorry, but I disagree on that point. You are old competing with young ppl that have more much time than you and will have in short time more knowledge than you. You should be respectfull and not beleive just because you are over 50 that nobody out there could make you feel ridiculous. Why do ou think you earned the right of beeing arrogant? Just because you are over 50? This show your way of thinking. I'd hate having an employee like you, tipical person that thinks he know everything...
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I don't think I know everything, and never once did I even suggest that I did. What I *did* imply is that I know how to select the appropriate tools for the job. You'd hate to have an employee like me? Your loss I suppose...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
No one's adding Clipper to the list? A wonderful little C based language targeting dBase that you could dynamically generate code with in function parameters, kinda like the anonymous declarations that .NET is now supplying.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Not rich, but I am quite comfortable. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001