C is a better language than any language you care to name.
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Written by Walter Bright, who invented D and is still tilting at windmills over it. He's wrong. Arrays are pointers. Period. That's how they really are and to pretend they are something special or different is absurd. What's even more absurd is his claim that they "...and lose the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT (unless a developer decided to make the array that way.) It's the very definition of a strawman argument. If you don't understand pointers, just say so and use a language "without" them (ha! all computer languages end up using pointers, they just hide them.)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
He's wrong. Arrays are pointers. Period. That's how they really are and to pretend they are something special or different is absurd. What's even more absurd is his claim that they "...and lose the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT (unless a developer decided to make the array that way.) It's the very definition of a strawman argument.
Agreed! :thumbsup:
Jeremy Falcon
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Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
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It's twice as good.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
...and c# is pointedly better! Hmmm... that doesn't work, sharp ---> points... but there isn't much use of pointers directly so that may be a bad analogy and therefore an even worse pun! However, with puns, the worst is the best so, yeah! :-)
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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It's a good language, but in the modern world it's a bit...outclassed. If you want small tight code for embedded work, then assembler is probably a good bet - though C is very useful there, it does tend to generate bloated code compared to that produced by a good assembler programmer. The C code will be produced faster, but it'll need more RAM, more processor, more...in embedded work you don't always have the luxury! If you want desktop work, then C# or C++ have so many massive advantages in terms of OOPs design that there really isn't any comparison. It'll take you a lot longer to write the same app in C, and it'll almost certainly be harder to maintain. If you want to write a website, then good luck doing it in C... It's a product of it's time: it was designed to be "better than COBOL and FORTRAN". But the world has moved on, and the "competition" is a lot more sophisticated now.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Quote:
"better than COBOL and FORTRAN".
Everything is better than COBOL but nothing is better than FORTRAN! Well... for maths stuff anyway! I wrote an expert system in FORTRAN-77, I thought it was so advanced now that I didn't have to pack characters two at a time into integers (FORTRAN IV).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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No, who's on first...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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...and c# is pointedly better! Hmmm... that doesn't work, sharp ---> points... but there isn't much use of pointers directly so that may be a bad analogy and therefore an even worse pun! However, with puns, the worst is the best so, yeah! :-)
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Written by Walter Bright, who invented D and is still tilting at windmills over it. He's wrong. Arrays are pointers. Period. That's how they really are and to pretend they are something special or different is absurd. What's even more absurd is his claim that they "...and lose the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT (unless a developer decided to make the array that way.) It's the very definition of a strawman argument. If you don't understand pointers, just say so and use a language "without" them (ha! all computer languages end up using pointers, they just hide them.)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Arrays are pointers
Joe Woodbury wrote:
the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT
char *p = "hello"; //pointer - no information about the dimension
char q[] = "hello"; // array - contains information about the dimensionprintf("%zu\n", sizeof(p)); // => size of pointer to char -- 4 on x86, 8 on x86-64
printf("%zu\n", sizeof(q)); // => size of char array in memory -- 6 on both -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Arrays are pointers
Joe Woodbury wrote:
the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT
char *p = "hello"; //pointer - no information about the dimension
char q[] = "hello"; // array - contains information about the dimensionprintf("%zu\n", sizeof(p)); // => size of pointer to char -- 4 on x86, 8 on x86-64
printf("%zu\n", sizeof(q)); // => size of char array in memory -- 6 on bothNemanja Trifunovic wrote:
char *p = "hello"; //pointer - no information about the dimension char q[] = "hello"; // array - contains information about the dimension
No the ARRAY does not. The declaration does and thus the precompiler) and sizeof(), but not the array itself. To illustrate, the function:
void _function(const char r[])
{
printf("%u\n", sizeof(r));
}Will print 4 or 8, depending on the size of a pointer, when you call
_function(q);. Added: Moreover, an optimizing compiler will likely pool both strings and use the same pointer for both operations (especially since it's clear they are both const.) Again, the sizeof() is handled by the precompiler, not at runtime. -
Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
It may be fast, but not as fast as MASM. Just look at some of the created code in the .cod listing. Many, many, pipeline stalls in code initialization where a push and pop of ebx would free that reg to share loading eax, then ebx, then saving eax, then saving ebx, and this was in optimized code in a high use function in JKDEFRAG. I'll stick with MASM. Dave.
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What's on second, I Don't Know is on third... hang on! Haven't we had this discussion before?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
:laugh: yeah. You had. And it makes me laugh even for the second time. Told you, I have weird humor. ;)
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
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Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
Ahm, how about this language[^]? :)
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
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Isn't that "bettor"? /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
I'm not sure, but I'll ask my Grammar when she's done baking cookies.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I'm not sure, but I'll ask my Grammar when she's done baking cookies.
Will Rogers never met me.
Baking cookies? I usually just add them to a response. ;P /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
'C' was its grade as a a programming language. C++ got a grade of C-- ;P
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Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
I agree. Granted that may be because I don't care to name any others.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Everything you said is nonsense and gibberish and yet I perfectly understood you. :) :thumbsup:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris, I am afraid you have the wrong information. C is not a language, it's an alphabet.
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
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Chris, I am afraid you have the wrong information. C is not a language, it's an alphabet.
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
Rutvik Dave wrote:
C is not a language, it's an alphabet.
Actually, it is just one element in a set called an "alphabet." We also have a 'D' and 24 other members in the set.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it
cheers Chris Maunder
The vast majority of the software out there is written in C. The vast majority of software out there has crippling flaws, are out of budget and abandoned after tried to use. QED ;P
