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  3. C is a better language than any language you care to name.

C is a better language than any language you care to name.

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  • C Chris Maunder

    Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

    cheers Chris Maunder

    F Offline
    F Offline
    Forogar
    wrote on last edited by
    #57

    Perhaps.

    - I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

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    • Z ZurdoDev

      It's twice as good.

      There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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      F Offline
      Forogar
      wrote on last edited by
      #58

      ...and c# is pointedly better! Hmmm... that doesn't work, sharp ---> points... but there isn't much use of pointers directly so that may be a bad analogy and therefore an even worse pun! However, with puns, the worst is the best so, yeah! :-)

      - I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

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      • OriginalGriffO OriginalGriff

        It's a good language, but in the modern world it's a bit...outclassed. If you want small tight code for embedded work, then assembler is probably a good bet - though C is very useful there, it does tend to generate bloated code compared to that produced by a good assembler programmer. The C code will be produced faster, but it'll need more RAM, more processor, more...in embedded work you don't always have the luxury! If you want desktop work, then C# or C++ have so many massive advantages in terms of OOPs design that there really isn't any comparison. It'll take you a lot longer to write the same app in C, and it'll almost certainly be harder to maintain. If you want to write a website, then good luck doing it in C... It's a product of it's time: it was designed to be "better than COBOL and FORTRAN". But the world has moved on, and the "competition" is a lot more sophisticated now.

        Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)

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        F Offline
        Forogar
        wrote on last edited by
        #59

        Quote:

        "better than COBOL and FORTRAN".

        Everything is better than COBOL but nothing is better than FORTRAN! Well... for maths stuff anyway! I wrote an expert system in FORTRAN-77, I thought it was so advanced now that I didn't have to pack characters two at a time into integers (FORTRAN IV).

        - I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

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        • OriginalGriffO OriginalGriff

          No, who's on first...

          Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)

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          F Offline
          Forogar
          wrote on last edited by
          #60

          What's on second, I Don't Know is on third... hang on! Haven't we had this discussion before?

          - I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

          K 1 Reply Last reply
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          • F Forogar

            ...and c# is pointedly better! Hmmm... that doesn't work, sharp ---> points... but there isn't much use of pointers directly so that may be a bad analogy and therefore an even worse pun! However, with puns, the worst is the best so, yeah! :-)

            - I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

            Z Offline
            Z Offline
            ZurdoDev
            wrote on last edited by
            #61

            Everything you said is nonsense and gibberish and yet I perfectly understood you. :) :thumbsup:

            There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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            • J Joe Woodbury

              Written by Walter Bright, who invented D and is still tilting at windmills over it. He's wrong. Arrays are pointers. Period. That's how they really are and to pretend they are something special or different is absurd. What's even more absurd is his claim that they "...and lose the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT (unless a developer decided to make the array that way.) It's the very definition of a strawman argument. If you don't understand pointers, just say so and use a language "without" them (ha! all computer languages end up using pointers, they just hide them.)

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              Nemanja Trifunovic
              wrote on last edited by
              #62

              Joe Woodbury wrote:

              Arrays are pointers

              Joe Woodbury wrote:

              the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT

              char *p = "hello"; //pointer - no information about the dimension
              char q[] = "hello"; // array - contains information about the dimension

              printf("%zu\n", sizeof(p)); // => size of pointer to char -- 4 on x86, 8 on x86-64
              printf("%zu\n", sizeof(q)); // => size of char array in memory -- 6 on both

              utf8-cpp

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              • N Nemanja Trifunovic

                Joe Woodbury wrote:

                Arrays are pointers

                Joe Woodbury wrote:

                the information which gives the extent of the array - the array dimension." THEY NEVER HAD IT

                char *p = "hello"; //pointer - no information about the dimension
                char q[] = "hello"; // array - contains information about the dimension

                printf("%zu\n", sizeof(p)); // => size of pointer to char -- 4 on x86, 8 on x86-64
                printf("%zu\n", sizeof(q)); // => size of char array in memory -- 6 on both

                utf8-cpp

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                J Offline
                Joe Woodbury
                wrote on last edited by
                #63

                Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:

                char *p = "hello"; //pointer - no information about the dimension char q[] = "hello"; // array - contains information about the dimension

                No the ARRAY does not. The declaration does and thus the precompiler) and sizeof(), but not the array itself. To illustrate, the function:

                void _function(const char r[])
                {
                printf("%u\n", sizeof(r));
                }

                Will print 4 or 8, depending on the size of a pointer, when you call _function(q);. Added: Moreover, an optimizing compiler will likely pool both strings and use the same pointer for both operations (especially since it's clear they are both const.) Again, the sizeof() is handled by the precompiler, not at runtime.

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                • C Chris Maunder

                  Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

                  cheers Chris Maunder

                  M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Member 4194593
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #64

                  It may be fast, but not as fast as MASM. Just look at some of the created code in the .cod listing. Many, many, pipeline stalls in code initialization where a push and pop of ebx would free that reg to share loading eax, then ebx, then saving eax, then saving ebx, and this was in optimized code in a high use function in JKDEFRAG. I'll stick with MASM. Dave.

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                  • F Forogar

                    What's on second, I Don't Know is on third... hang on! Haven't we had this discussion before?

                    - I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

                    K Offline
                    K Offline
                    Karen Mitchelle
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #65

                    :laugh: yeah. You had. And it makes me laugh even for the second time. Told you, I have weird humor. ;)

                    Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64

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                    • C Chris Maunder

                      Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

                      cheers Chris Maunder

                      K Offline
                      K Offline
                      Karen Mitchelle
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #66

                      Ahm, how about this language[^]? :)

                      Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64

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                      • R Ravi Bhavnani

                        Isn't that "bettor"? /ravi

                        My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com

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                        R Offline
                        Roger Wright
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #67

                        I'm not sure, but I'll ask my Grammar when she's done baking cookies.

                        Will Rogers never met me.

                        R 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • R Roger Wright

                          I'm not sure, but I'll ask my Grammar when she's done baking cookies.

                          Will Rogers never met me.

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Ravi Bhavnani
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #68

                          Baking cookies?  I usually just add them to a response. ;P /ravi

                          My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com

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                          • C Chris Maunder

                            Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

                            cheers Chris Maunder

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                            V Offline
                            Vivi Chellappa
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #69

                            'C' was its grade as a a programming language. C++ got a grade of C-- ;P

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                            • C Chris Maunder

                              Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

                              cheers Chris Maunder

                              P Offline
                              P Offline
                              PIEBALDconsult
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #70

                              I agree. Granted that may be because I don't care to name any others.

                              You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.

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                              • Z ZurdoDev

                                Everything you said is nonsense and gibberish and yet I perfectly understood you. :) :thumbsup:

                                There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

                                L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Lost User
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #71

                                Are you a VB Code reviewer? :p

                                Z 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • C Chris Maunder

                                  Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

                                  cheers Chris Maunder

                                  R Offline
                                  R Offline
                                  Rutvik Dave
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #72

                                  Chris, I am afraid you have the wrong information. C is not a language, it's an alphabet.

                                  Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud

                                  R 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • R Rutvik Dave

                                    Chris, I am afraid you have the wrong information. C is not a language, it's an alphabet.

                                    Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud

                                    R Offline
                                    R Offline
                                    Roger Wright
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #73

                                    Rutvik Dave wrote:

                                    C is not a language, it's an alphabet.

                                    Actually, it is just one element in a set called an "alphabet." We also have a 'D' and 24 other members in the set.

                                    Will Rogers never met me.

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                                    • S snorkie

                                      C is for COOKIE

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                                      Argonia
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #74

                                      So C++ is for two cookies? (cookie++ ; ) ;)

                                      Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true

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                                      • C Chris Maunder

                                        Discuss. I've just read The Unreasonable Effectiveness of C[^] and decided to outsource my ranting response to it

                                        cheers Chris Maunder

                                        P Offline
                                        P Offline
                                        Peter Adam
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #75

                                        The vast majority of the software out there is written in C. The vast majority of software out there has crippling flaws, are out of budget and abandoned after tried to use. QED ;P

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                                        • D DaveAuld

                                          Chris Maunder wrote:

                                          C is a better language than any language you care to name

                                          No, I think I would much rather talk to someone using English. :rolleyes:

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                                          S Offline
                                          Simon ORiordan from UK
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #76

                                          printf("Why is that then?");

                                          S 1 Reply Last reply
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