"I refuse to work in C#"
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if you depend on a IDE, you have problems. if he is that extremist that chooses a solution over a IDE, he has one too. I almost never use IDE's basically because I have no time to lose learning all the tricks I already know on my text editor. I really hate them for the dependency they create on my colleagues that can't think out a bug without an IDE. the almost part its the technological part. if I'm codding java or c# I'll use one. if I'm codding php or javascript, I'm faster at my text editor and I'm used to deal with the bugs on a different way. this is personal to me. my mind got used to this way over the years and changing it now would cost a lot to me and my employee. maybe that guy who told you that has the same problem. his difference from me is the lack of willingness to try. because if my boss tells me use this or that language, I'll put the learning of the IDE on cost of learning the language (win win for me). so, the lack of willingness to try, thats a problem he has. your's is the ability to think that there is no coding without an IDE. you would probably fail at some exams I had when I wasn't even at college (coding tests, yes). :)
Err...say what?
Mookie Baylock wrote:
I almost never use IDE's basically because I have no time to lose learning all the tricks I already know on my text editor.
That's the fallacy of motion: you're too busy digging that ditch with a shovel to learn how to use the backhoe, even though the combined time to learn the backhoe controls and use it to dig the ditch is less than the time it will take you to dig the ditch by hand. But hey, you've already got the shovel in your hand, and the backhoe is way over there by the shed, so let's just mumble something about how real men don't need machines to do their work and get to it.
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R. Giskard Reventlov wrote:
For real coding
yep, you two really make a pair. talk about "if you read what I said"... if age is your best argument to defend your point of view instead of understanding that to some "languages" a IDE it's just clutter and to others it's a good handy tool, well, keep talking to your friend, you're a match. besides, this zygote didn't belittled someone experienced opinion based on their age, because, if you're older than me you should know that rationality beats that every day. maybe you failed to learn that on those long long years programming real code. that might be another problem you have. signs of oversized ego belittling everything you don't like so you feel better about what you do. but your're not alone in that. some guys buy oversized cars to solve the same problem. anyway, this is me guessing stuff about you like you did about me. you might even be a good person just with a rage. I will stop now, because you know how they say, you will beat this zygote in experience. *grins*
Err...say what?
Wow! Does no one actually read something or understand it before they respond. Plainly, in your case, they don't. Have very nice notepad life.
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Mookie Baylock wrote:
I almost never use IDE's basically because I have no time to lose learning all the tricks I already know on my text editor.
That's the fallacy of motion: you're too busy digging that ditch with a shovel to learn how to use the backhoe, even though the combined time to learn the backhoe controls and use it to dig the ditch is less than the time it will take you to dig the ditch by hand. But hey, you've already got the shovel in your hand, and the backhoe is way over there by the shed, so let's just mumble something about how real men don't need machines to do their work and get to it.
yep, you're right. never disagreed with that. but still, I won't use a caterpillar to dig a sand castle. unless I want to live in the sand castle which doesn't sound that wise either. the real problem here is extremism. when you only have a hammer, that hammer is the solution to everything. the guy that said he won't code c# because of having to use a IDE has his hammer and refuses to leave it. he can solve anything with it. the other guys do exactly like him, but with a different hammer. their hammer. well, let them hammer themselves until one gets tired. :P
Err...say what?
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> my god, I have to actually install Visual Studio and work in an IDE? No way. I want to work from the command line for development, and if you want to use C# for the back end, I'm not going to help you. Yes indeed, I heard that on Friday from a Linux guy who is trying to push for a Django / Python back end at the company I'm working at. Fucking script-kiddies. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
If your colleague really wants to be an idiot, there's nothing stopping them from using some antique line-oriented editor (remember DEC's SOS editor from the 1970s?, or maybe emacs on a VT-100 terminal) to edit their program and using visual studio's command-line tools to compile it. There's even a way to install just the command-line compiler and linker. Horrible as it sounds, that's how google's Chromium project compiles for windows. I suspect your colleague's disdain for C# probably goes deeper than that. Visual Studio's IDE is really quite productive, though I also like Eclipse (when it isn't crashing on me). Sigh.
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> my god, I have to actually install Visual Studio and work in an IDE? No way. I want to work from the command line for development, and if you want to use C# for the back end, I'm not going to help you. Yes indeed, I heard that on Friday from a Linux guy who is trying to push for a Django / Python back end at the company I'm working at. Fucking script-kiddies. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
I think you guys are missing the point. A good text editor has nothing to do with notepad (I think notepad++ isn't a satisfactory improvement). I work daily with SublimeText, and I assure you I'm more productive and learned a lot than when I used Visual Studio/C#. Like your coworker, I defended a platform change in our company. We have successfully migrated our C# solution, that ran only in Windows, in a Django/Python service. I had fights with my teammates at the time, it wasn't a soft transition, but there's a lot of advantages, we ship code better and faster than never. I doubt that anyone code in Visual Studio faster than an expert vim programmer. I've seen one of them in a Google keynote about Angular.js, they are insanely fast. There's no reason to develop a serious application in a closed platform, which project itself is a great failure (they copied the JIT compiler thing from Java, except that Java does it because it's multiplatform, opposed to .NET -- Mono is buggy and very very unofficial). The worst part is that a single company that controls everything. The best thing that happened to software development was open source, an having a good community around it makes the difference The community around C# is poor, partially because they can't have a role in the language/framework development. "Open source" doesn't mean I'm saying "linux rules windows sucks", I'm talking about reusing code/components from someone else. You do it everyday, except that the guys who write the code you reuse are Microsoft employees pressed to keep old standards, the code that I use are from passionated developers around the world.
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> my god, I have to actually install Visual Studio and work in an IDE? No way. I want to work from the command line for development, and if you want to use C# for the back end, I'm not going to help you. Yes indeed, I heard that on Friday from a Linux guy who is trying to push for a Django / Python back end at the company I'm working at. Fucking script-kiddies. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Suppose, if you really wanted to, one could draw an entire 2015 Dodge Viper in 3d via the Autocad commandline, Of course most would likely prefer the IDE ;P
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Luxury! I had a TRS-80 with no tape drive and a broken game cartridge slot. Literally all I could do with it was type in BASIC programs that would disappear as soon as I switched it off.
I had a KIM-1 with 4 KB memory. No disk, no tape. Just a hex keypad and a 6 X 7 segment display. After an hour of hand keying in the program you could play Hunt the Wumpus!
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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It could always be worse. You could be required to build an app with nothing but Access and macros. It's like opening that nice red toolbox and finding only a bag of sporks.
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> my god, I have to actually install Visual Studio and work in an IDE? No way. I want to work from the command line for development, and if you want to use C# for the back end, I'm not going to help you. Yes indeed, I heard that on Friday from a Linux guy who is trying to push for a Django / Python back end at the company I'm working at. Fucking script-kiddies. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Oh, now you've stepped in it... I have a MicroVAX 3100 (circa 1986) with 8MB RAM and two 1GB HDDs and VAX BASIC installed. :cool:
VAX BASIC V3.9-000
Ready
print 6*7
42
Ready10 for i = 1 to 10
20 print "Hello, world!"
30 next i
runnhHello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
Hello, world!
ReadyWhoa! With that sort of advanced capability, you'll even be able to run "Adventure For The Stupid" (tm): 10 print "You are in a cave..." 20 line input I$ 30 goto 10
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Is there a macro that could be used to call Access VBA? "Wow, you did all of this with a single line of macros." [and a few hundred lines of "real" code]
Tempting, but the boss at the time was too savvy for that kind of sneakiness.
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I had a KIM-1 with 4 KB memory. No disk, no tape. Just a hex keypad and a 6 X 7 segment display. After an hour of hand keying in the program you could play Hunt the Wumpus!
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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In my first programming class we had these workstations with an 8080A, an octal keypad, and 3 rows of 8 LEDs (with pin-outs if you wanted to be fancy and wire up a 7-segment). I can't seem to find it on Google, though.
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In my first programming class we had these workstations with an 8080A, an octal keypad, and 3 rows of 8 LEDs (with pin-outs if you wanted to be fancy and wire up a 7-segment). I can't seem to find it on Google, though.
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My first computer (actually my employers) was a Burroughs main frame (!) with 9.6k memory, no disk, mag tapes, no operating system.
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My first computer was a simple Base 10 analog machine. It had 2 parts attached to the end of my arms. I still have it and use it when I don't want to be bothered with an IDE to hammer screws in or pound nails with a screwdriver.
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I can't resist. My first machine was a Commodore Vic-20... with 3.5K of user RAM and built in BASIC.
Me too! 70s kids REPRESENT! (I was pretty jealous later when all my friends got Commodore 64s. :|
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I can't resist as well... My first computer was a Sinclair ZX-81, with the 16KB add on memory module. That and a realistic cassette deck were all that were needed to ensure productivity never faltered.
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My first computer was a simple Base 10 analog machine. It had 2 parts attached to the end of my arms. I still have it and use it when I don't want to be bothered with an IDE to hammer screws in or pound nails with a screwdriver.
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I have no respect for developers who claim they couldn't possibly develop without the latest IDE and related tools. Do more with less. I use Visual Studio only when I need to (WinForms and SSIS), but all my other C# I do old-school*. And I prefer to do primarily back-end, library, utility stuff. I can send him a copy of the simple IDE I wrote -- I use it for C#, C, and VB. I'm sure it can do other languages (basically all you need to do is tell it how to call the compiler). (Sorry, no article is forthcoming at this time.) * No syntax highlighting, no code folding, no debugger, no designer, no intellisense, no real-time syntax checking, just raw like a chopped panhead yo. :cool: Like turbo C, except Turbo C has a debugger.
Well, for that he (and you) can just install Atom.io[^]
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun