Learning Web Development
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I was thinking about a prior Lounge posting about learning web development. I know next to nothing about web development, except moderate experience with WEB API development using MVC, WCF, and some SignalR. It sees to me that to be truly proficient in Web Development using a Microsoft stack, one would have to learn and remain proficient in: ASP.Net MVC JavaScript Angular.js HTML5 CSS and there's a boatload of things to learn hat are just words to me: Backbone.js, Ember.js, jQuery, Coffeescript, Handlebar, react.js, node.js, express, wordpress, Drupal, Magento and god knows what else. Am I making this more difficult than it is, or is it really this much work? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
In theory, Angular or jQuery don't count as Microsoft stack. You can use MVC with the built in Ajax helpers and Razor. But of late, a lot of people are mixing MVC with Angular (mini-SPA approach).
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I was thinking about a prior Lounge posting about learning web development. I know next to nothing about web development, except moderate experience with WEB API development using MVC, WCF, and some SignalR. It sees to me that to be truly proficient in Web Development using a Microsoft stack, one would have to learn and remain proficient in: ASP.Net MVC JavaScript Angular.js HTML5 CSS and there's a boatload of things to learn hat are just words to me: Backbone.js, Ember.js, jQuery, Coffeescript, Handlebar, react.js, node.js, express, wordpress, Drupal, Magento and god knows what else. Am I making this more difficult than it is, or is it really this much work? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Also keep in mind there are a multitude of browsers which may not consistently render the same page. Other points to consider are mobile devices and responsive pages. At some point, you will feel pain. ______________________________________________________________________
Ah don't lean on me man, cause you can't afford the ticket
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I was thinking about a prior Lounge posting about learning web development. I know next to nothing about web development, except moderate experience with WEB API development using MVC, WCF, and some SignalR. It sees to me that to be truly proficient in Web Development using a Microsoft stack, one would have to learn and remain proficient in: ASP.Net MVC JavaScript Angular.js HTML5 CSS and there's a boatload of things to learn hat are just words to me: Backbone.js, Ember.js, jQuery, Coffeescript, Handlebar, react.js, node.js, express, wordpress, Drupal, Magento and god knows what else. Am I making this more difficult than it is, or is it really this much work? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
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You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
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You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
That helped, putting all the bits in place makes a big difference. However it still comes down to having to learn at least 3 technologies/frameworks and probably 5 or 6. Ah Silverlight I do miss you!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
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You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
You could have mentioned TypeScript[^] as well, basically Javascript with optional type safety. The lack of type safety is the biggest drawback of Javascript as far as I'm concerned
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I was thinking about a prior Lounge posting about learning web development. I know next to nothing about web development, except moderate experience with WEB API development using MVC, WCF, and some SignalR. It sees to me that to be truly proficient in Web Development using a Microsoft stack, one would have to learn and remain proficient in: ASP.Net MVC JavaScript Angular.js HTML5 CSS and there's a boatload of things to learn hat are just words to me: Backbone.js, Ember.js, jQuery, Coffeescript, Handlebar, react.js, node.js, express, wordpress, Drupal, Magento and god knows what else. Am I making this more difficult than it is, or is it really this much work? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
I am now retired and got into web development for the Bowls Club I belong to. I created a web site using just ASP.NET, MVC, HTML and CSS using C# as the programming language. It was pretty successful. I am now thinking of re-writing it to add more functionality and it won't be much different in what I use. I will use the new ASP Core 5, MVC, HTML and CSS using VB when it is supported (C# in the meantime}. ASP Core contains Bootstrap which does a lot of the work for you when creating a nice looking UI. I have decided to have a good look at Metro-UI instead. There are a few more fancy things in that system but the docs are a bit light in getting it installed. I will also use (JQuery)JavaScript if I have to. My database is an existing SQL Server database hosted by the Web Hosting site. I will use Entity Framework to provide the contact with the DB. I find they give me all the tools I need to create whatever I is required. I don't have much time to start learning any more fancy tools or I won't get the job finished.
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You could have mentioned TypeScript[^] as well, basically Javascript with optional type safety. The lack of type safety is the biggest drawback of Javascript as far as I'm concerned
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
I also should've mentioned Knockout.js, Bootstrap, jQuery UI, Jade, Sockets.io etc. :) I think the lack of type safety is one of the strengths and weaknesses of JavaScript. Personally I haven't used TypeScript, but it's been on my things to try list for a while now.
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Thank you. Very imformitive explanation
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
No problem :) Don't focus too much on all the frameworks and libraries. My advice is to start easy with HTML, then add some CSS, then some JavaScript. You should be able to create that using nothing but Notepad(++) and a browser. After that try adding some back-end. Only after you've got "vanilla" web development add some libraries and frameworks to your stack :)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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That helped, putting all the bits in place makes a big difference. However it still comes down to having to learn at least 3 technologies/frameworks and probably 5 or 6. Ah Silverlight I do miss you!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
it still comes down to having to learn at least 3 technologies/frameworks
Yeah, but having a little knowledge can get you pretty far with all the frameworks around. With a little CSS knowledge you can still use Bootstrap which does the hard parts. With a little HTML/CSS/JavaScript knowledge you can still use jQuery UI, which gives you pretty advanced controls. Knowing them all, yes. Mastering them all? Nope :)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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That's very good explanation for a beginner. Very well. Bookmarked in case someone comes asking, I can redirect them here... :-)
Thanks, Milind
Thanks! :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
Maybe write this up as an article or tip/trick while going just a wee bit more in depth and breadth? I'm currently also preparing my jump dive into web dev and have been looking for a good high altitude overview that lifts the confusion about the multitude of technologies and terms, without that marketing gibberish on some websites - and your message here is the best in that regard that I've come across so far! PS: maybe a reference would be the most fitting category for publication
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't. — Lyall Watson
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
it still comes down to having to learn at least 3 technologies/frameworks
Yeah, but having a little knowledge can get you pretty far with all the frameworks around. With a little CSS knowledge you can still use Bootstrap which does the hard parts. With a little HTML/CSS/JavaScript knowledge you can still use jQuery UI, which gives you pretty advanced controls. Knowing them all, yes. Mastering them all? Nope :)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Very good explanation and all your points above are very good.Totally agree with everything.
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I am now retired and got into web development for the Bowls Club I belong to. I created a web site using just ASP.NET, MVC, HTML and CSS using C# as the programming language. It was pretty successful. I am now thinking of re-writing it to add more functionality and it won't be much different in what I use. I will use the new ASP Core 5, MVC, HTML and CSS using VB when it is supported (C# in the meantime}. ASP Core contains Bootstrap which does a lot of the work for you when creating a nice looking UI. I have decided to have a good look at Metro-UI instead. There are a few more fancy things in that system but the docs are a bit light in getting it installed. I will also use (JQuery)JavaScript if I have to. My database is an existing SQL Server database hosted by the Web Hosting site. I will use Entity Framework to provide the contact with the DB. I find they give me all the tools I need to create whatever I is required. I don't have much time to start learning any more fancy tools or I won't get the job finished.
Thank you.. Good info
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
-
I was thinking about a prior Lounge posting about learning web development. I know next to nothing about web development, except moderate experience with WEB API development using MVC, WCF, and some SignalR. It sees to me that to be truly proficient in Web Development using a Microsoft stack, one would have to learn and remain proficient in: ASP.Net MVC JavaScript Angular.js HTML5 CSS and there's a boatload of things to learn hat are just words to me: Backbone.js, Ember.js, jQuery, Coffeescript, Handlebar, react.js, node.js, express, wordpress, Drupal, Magento and god knows what else. Am I making this more difficult than it is, or is it really this much work? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Word!:cool:
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You're making it more complicated than it is. I once did the same, so I wrote a series of blogs about it: Web development #1: Internet and the World Wide Web[^] Maybe it'll help you :D Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP. Everything you mentioned comes down to any of those languages. Pick a few (or one) and be done with it. The only Microsoft thing you mentioned is ASP.NET MVC by the way, it's your C# back-end framework. Angular.js, Backbone.js, React.js, and Ember.js are just front-end JavaScript frameworks (running in the browser). They make the work there a little bit easier by pushing you in a certain coding style and direction (they provide HTML binding, templating, and MV* coding style). In no way are you obligated to use them and you usually use just one of them. jQuery is a JavaScript library for the front-end that makes working with the HTML document object model (DOM) a lot easier and also solves lots of browser incompatibilities. It's probably the most used library around. If you're using one of the earlier mentioned frameworks you probably don't need jQuery as these frameworks have their own methods you can use. Node.js is just more JavaScript, but now in the back-end (and so replaces your C#, Java, or PHP). Express is a framework often used with Node.js. Node.js is fairly light-weight and keeps a lot of work to the user, Express has implemented a lot of it for you (such as parsing, routing, etc.). CoffeeScript is a language that compiles to JavaScript (so you don't have to write actual JavaScript). Handlebars is a templating engine that helps you to build up HTML. It's often used with Node.js and Express. Wordpress, Drupal, and Magento are something else. They are Content Management Systems that run on the web. Rent some web space and you can probably install any of them (and more). They're used for creating blogs and pages. They can be customized using, you've guessed it, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. Out of all those I know how to use just a few plus a few you haven't mentioned :D If you're interested in Node.js, Express, and Angular.js I've also written a series of blogs about those:
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Word!:cool:
Who wants to do Word programming?? ;P ;P ;P
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Maybe write this up as an article or tip/trick while going just a wee bit more in depth and breadth? I'm currently also preparing my jump dive into web dev and have been looking for a good high altitude overview that lifts the confusion about the multitude of technologies and terms, without that marketing gibberish on some websites - and your message here is the best in that regard that I've come across so far! PS: maybe a reference would be the most fitting category for publication
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't. — Lyall Watson
Sascha Lefèvre wrote:
your message here is the best in that regard that I've come across so far!
Thanks! :D I actually wrote that down in a few minutes from the top of my head. Funny as I was in the OP's shoes just over a year ago :) I've written something like it in my blogs, especially the first[^] and eighth[^] on web dev. The first mentions this exact problem, where to start? And that you'll need HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language. The eighth explores some additional libraries and frameworks :)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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You said: "Basically you need to know a bit about HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and a back-end language such as C#, Java, or PHP." That's a lot to learn and master.
I said you need to know a BIT about them, not MASTER them ;) You don't need to master anything (although it's a pro). With just basic HTML, CSS, and JavaScript knowledge you can build pretty awesome websites, all those libraries make sure of that. Some basic skills allow you to use Bootstrap, jQuery (UI), and that will do a lot for you already :) And let's be honest, how many of us are true masters of HTML and CSS? That's for designers, not programmers! ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
