(Again) Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in October 2018 And it is Raising

Lost User

georani wrote:

Bad argument.

No, an old and valid one, and proven at that; most programmers that started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.

georani wrote:

Source?

Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.

georani wrote:

Done.

Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.

Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

georani

Sander Rossel wrote:

but I don't even think .NET Core supports VB.

Please see it: .NET Core 2.1 downloads for Linux, macOS, and Windows[^]

Released 10/2/2018

Release notes:

Supports C# 7.3

Supports F# 4.5

**Supports Visual Basic 15.5**

Sander Rossel wrote:

Microsoft telling us VB is still supported, but not further developed.

You are wrong, please see this: .NET Core 3 and Support for Windows Desktop Applications (Winforms and WPF) | .NET Blog[^]

Article excerpt:

C#, F# and VB already work with .NET Core 2.0. You will be able to build desktop applications with any of those three languages with .NET Core 3.

dandy72

georani wrote:

VB.NET is like C# but a bit more verbose and almost like natural English, so anyone can understand VB.NET code.

I always say that's a terrible analogy as spoken language has many nuances that a reader can only understand if provided enough context. You can write something useful with a programming language within a few days or even hours--minutes in some cases. You need weeks, if not months or even years, to become proficient with a spoken language. If that's how VB.NET's defenders choose to extol its virtues, then they're starting off on the wrong foot. I want my programming languages to clearly reflect the writer's intent without any guesswork. Comparing it with English is not how to sell a programming language to a developer. That's called dumbing it down to help those people not working in this field understand what's being discussed.

Sander Rossel · Released 10/2/2018

Ok, so VB is or wasn't supported for .NET Core 1.x, Portable Framework, Unity, some Azure functionality... It seems VB always comes last for Microsoft, if at all. And then sometimes, someone, like you, comes along who loves VB and promises to make it all better and it gets a little bit better only for VB to fall behind again. Yeah, VB was my first language and as such it has a special place in my heart, but I wouldn't recommend VB as a career path for anyone. Programmers aren't using it, employers aren't asking for it. It only, somehow, has a high position in a weird TIOBE index.

Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly

georani

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.

It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language). See by yourself: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.

I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.

Done.

Dave Kreskowiak

georani wrote:

I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.

No, he said 50% of "PROJECTS" fail, not "50% of VB.NET projects". And that statistic is true, though the number is not dead on accurate. Study: 68 percent of IT projects fail | ZDNet[^] 21 Shocking Project Management Statistics That Cost Business Owners Millions Each Year[^] When are you going to learn to read, without bias?

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

Dave Kreskowiak

They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework. They are NOT statement-for-statement equivalent. Read Comparison of C Sharp and Visual Basic .NET - Wikipedia[^] There are features of both languages that you cannot use or find an equivalent for in the other.

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

georani

Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework.

Not only this, They are equivalent in the sense that they both can do the same things with equivalent (almost) amount of code (amount of lines).

Dave Kreskowiak

That is most assuredly not true. You would know this if you bothered to read the link I gave you. Again, when are you going to learn to read without bias?

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

Lost User

georani wrote:

It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language).

No, I'm not. Saying that VB.NET s a C# equivalent is nonsense; they target the same runtime, but so does managed C++. No one in their right mind would compare VB to C++, calling them equivalent. It implies that you could take a VB.NET programmer and drop him/her in an "equivalent" environment. You can't :thumbsup:

georani wrote:

I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.

I could offer help, but I'm weirdly enough not in a helpfull mood :)

Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

georani

Please, see this hypothetical and valid VB.NET code:

'VB.NET code
Select Case L1
Case Is < 50
If L1 = 42 Then

                For x = 0 To 100
                    For y = 0 To 100
                        For z = 0 To 100
                            L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L)
                            If L1 = 2 Then L1 += 1 Else L1 = 0                             
                        Next z
                    Next y
                Next x
            End If

        Case Is > 390
            L1 = 0
        Case Is = 70
            L1 = 32

End Select

Now compare with the only way to do the same thing in C#:

// C# code with "Curly Braces Hell"

if (L1 < 50)
{
	if (L1 == 42)
	{

		for (var x = 0; x <= 100; x++)
		{
			for (var y = 0; y <= 100; y++)
			{
				for (var z = 0; z <= 100; z++)
				{
                    L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L);
					if (L1 == 2)
					{
						L1 += 1;
					}
					else
					{
						L1 = 0;
					}  
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

else if (L1 > 390)
{
	L1 = 0;
}

else if (L1 == 70)
{
	L1 = 32;
}

Which is more readable and fun? Do you prefer "Curly Braces Hell"?

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

I would say that such highly hypothetical code has nothing to do with nothing... I also would say that you do not know how to write efficient code in C#, if you think you have to add all those brackets, or that this is the only way to write it... You also totally drop the factor of experience... C# can be done in different ways, and be still perfectly readable for the experienced... (L1 = (L1 == 42 || (L1 > 390)) ? L1 = 0 : (L1 == 70) ? L1 = 32 : L1;)

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018

georani

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:

I would say that such highly hypothetical code has nothing to do with nothing...

Yes, it is an highly hypothetical and compilable code and randomly typed in Visual Studio. I did it just to show my point.

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:

(L1 = (L1 == 42 || (L1 > 390)) ? L1 = 0 : (L1 == 70) ? L1 = 32 : L1;)

This C# code you made is not similar to that one, I have edit it and added only one line inside "for" block:

//C# code added
DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L);

Please, try again with this new code.

georani

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Saying that VB.NET s a C# equivalent is nonsense;

Really? So, please see this, click: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

I could offer help, but I'm weirdly enough not in a helpfull mood

Is your bad mood because you got caught up in a lie?

Lost User

georani wrote:

Really? So, please see this, click: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]

A comparison does not make an equivalent.

georani wrote:

Is your bad mood because you got caught up in a lie?

No, because I'm accused of lying by some over-emotional twat who has trouble understanding English. :)

Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

Dave Kreskowiak

Yeah and we told you that their methodology doesn't mean the language is popular IN USE. The TIOBE index is based on search results for keywords. That in no way means the language is more popular in actual use. Am I a hater of VB.NET? No. I started .NET developement in 2001 with VB.NET, using the command line compilers and Notepad. There was no Visual Studio .NET at the time as the .NET Framework was still a beta. I can write code in COBOL (blah!), VB5, VB6, VB.NET, C#, C, C++, C++/CLI, Java, Javascript, VBScript, VBA, ... It doesn't matter what the language is, the money I get for writing in it is still green.

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

Dave Kreskowiak

And as far as your "equivalent" comparison is concerned, that is no longer the case. Visual Basic is the odd man out in the new .Net | InfoWorld[^] The .NET Language Strategy | .NET Blog[^]

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

georani

Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

Visual Basic is the odd man out in the new .Net | InfoWorld[^] The .NET Language Strategy | .NET Blog[^]

These 2 articles you cited are almost 2 years old (February 1, 2017) . Now (2018) the reality is another, click to see: .NET Core 3 and Support for Windows Desktop Applications | .NET Blog[^]

Article excerpt:

C#, F# and VB already work with .NET Core 2.0. You will be able to build desktop applications with any of those three languages with .NET Core 3.

Dave Kreskowiak

Which has NOTHING to do with C# and VB.NET being developed separately and your comparison of the two being "equivalent".

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

maze3

I know why this happened. .net Core 2.1 was announced as supporting VB. So a whole bunch of C# devs thought, that sounds call, I remeber VB. Lets spend a few hours seeing how amazing a programmer I am and do that application I have been doing for months in 1 day in VB. 10 minutes later. Stack Overflow - how to error handle. How do you create string. Why is there no int64. 1 day later, 100 new questions asking "basic" questions because they have never been asked on stack overflow, with people answering and up voting on mass. All this in 2 days. So in comparison, VB.net questions went up 1000% fold (from 1 a month to 1000) Where as c# questions on went up 1% (from 10,000 a month to 10,100) Ah Maths.