(Again) Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in October 2018 And it is Raising
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georani wrote:
Bad argument.
No, an old and valid one, and proven at that; most programmers that started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.
georani wrote:
Source?
Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.
georani wrote:
Done.
Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.
It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language). See by yourself: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.
I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.
Done.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.
It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language). See by yourself: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.
I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.
Done.
georani wrote:
I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.
No, he said 50% of "PROJECTS" fail, not "50% of VB.NET projects". And that statistic is true, though the number is not dead on accurate. Study: 68 percent of IT projects fail | ZDNet[^] 21 Shocking Project Management Statistics That Cost Business Owners Millions Each Year[^] When are you going to learn to read, without bias?
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
...you will understand how VB is limited...
You assertion is a lie. C# and VB.NET are equivalent languages!! See: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Sorry to use large fonts, but I guess you did not read it the first time :-DThey are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework. They are NOT statement-for-statement equivalent. Read Comparison of C Sharp and Visual Basic .NET - Wikipedia[^] There are features of both languages that you cannot use or find an equivalent for in the other.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework. They are NOT statement-for-statement equivalent. Read Comparison of C Sharp and Visual Basic .NET - Wikipedia[^] There are features of both languages that you cannot use or find an equivalent for in the other.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework.
Not only this, They are equivalent in the sense that they both can do the same things with equivalent (almost) amount of code (amount of lines).
That is most assuredly not true. You would know this if you bothered to read the link I gave you. Again, when are you going to learn to read without bias?
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.
It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language). See by yourself: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.
I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.
Done.
georani wrote:
It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language).
No, I'm not. Saying that VB.NET s a C# equivalent is nonsense; they target the same runtime, but so does managed C++. No one in their right mind would compare VB to C++, calling them equivalent. It implies that you could take a VB.NET programmer and drop him/her in an "equivalent" environment. You can't :thumbsup:
georani wrote:
I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.
I could offer help, but I'm weirdly enough not in a helpfull mood :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Lexical part of the language is not all makes it a language... Try this in English:
Tavon a lúd átúsz, visszaúsz meg átúsz.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
Please, see this hypothetical and valid VB.NET code:
'VB.NET code
Select Case L1
Case Is < 50
If L1 = 42 ThenFor x = 0 To 100 For y = 0 To 100 For z = 0 To 100 L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L) If L1 = 2 Then L1 += 1 Else L1 = 0 Next z Next y Next x End If Case Is > 390 L1 = 0 Case Is = 70 L1 = 32End Select
Now compare with the only way to do the same thing in C#:
// C# code with "Curly Braces Hell"
if (L1 < 50) { if (L1 == 42) { for (var x = 0; x <= 100; x++) { for (var y = 0; y <= 100; y++) { for (var z = 0; z <= 100; z++) { L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L); if (L1 == 2) { L1 += 1; } else { L1 = 0; } } } } } } else if (L1 > 390) { L1 = 0; } else if (L1 == 70) { L1 = 32; }Which is more readable and fun? Do you prefer "Curly Braces Hell"?
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Please, see this hypothetical and valid VB.NET code:
'VB.NET code
Select Case L1
Case Is < 50
If L1 = 42 ThenFor x = 0 To 100 For y = 0 To 100 For z = 0 To 100 L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L) If L1 = 2 Then L1 += 1 Else L1 = 0 Next z Next y Next x End If Case Is > 390 L1 = 0 Case Is = 70 L1 = 32End Select
Now compare with the only way to do the same thing in C#:
// C# code with "Curly Braces Hell"
if (L1 < 50) { if (L1 == 42) { for (var x = 0; x <= 100; x++) { for (var y = 0; y <= 100; y++) { for (var z = 0; z <= 100; z++) { L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L); if (L1 == 2) { L1 += 1; } else { L1 = 0; } } } } } } else if (L1 > 390) { L1 = 0; } else if (L1 == 70) { L1 = 32; }Which is more readable and fun? Do you prefer "Curly Braces Hell"?
I would say that such highly hypothetical code has nothing to do with nothing... I also would say that you do not know how to write efficient code in C#, if you think you have to add all those brackets, or that this is the only way to write it... You also totally drop the factor of experience... C# can be done in different ways, and be still perfectly readable for the experienced... (L1 = (L1 == 42 || (L1 > 390)) ? L1 = 0 : (L1 == 70) ? L1 = 32 : L1;)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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I would say that such highly hypothetical code has nothing to do with nothing... I also would say that you do not know how to write efficient code in C#, if you think you have to add all those brackets, or that this is the only way to write it... You also totally drop the factor of experience... C# can be done in different ways, and be still perfectly readable for the experienced... (L1 = (L1 == 42 || (L1 > 390)) ? L1 = 0 : (L1 == 70) ? L1 = 32 : L1;)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
I would say that such highly hypothetical code has nothing to do with nothing...
Yes, it is an highly hypothetical and compilable code and randomly typed in Visual Studio. I did it just to show my point.
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
(L1 = (L1 == 42 || (L1 > 390)) ? L1 = 0 : (L1 == 70) ? L1 = 32 : L1;)
This C# code you made is not similar to that one, I have edit it and added only one line inside "for" block:
//C# code added
DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L);Please, try again with this new code.
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georani wrote:
It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language).
No, I'm not. Saying that VB.NET s a C# equivalent is nonsense; they target the same runtime, but so does managed C++. No one in their right mind would compare VB to C++, calling them equivalent. It implies that you could take a VB.NET programmer and drop him/her in an "equivalent" environment. You can't :thumbsup:
georani wrote:
I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.
I could offer help, but I'm weirdly enough not in a helpfull mood :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Saying that VB.NET s a C# equivalent is nonsense;
Really? So, please see this, click: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
I could offer help, but I'm weirdly enough not in a helpfull mood
Is your bad mood because you got caught up in a lie?
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Saying that VB.NET s a C# equivalent is nonsense;
Really? So, please see this, click: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
I could offer help, but I'm weirdly enough not in a helpfull mood
Is your bad mood because you got caught up in a lie?
georani wrote:
Really? So, please see this, click: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
A comparison does not make an equivalent.
georani wrote:
Is your bad mood because you got caught up in a lie?
No, because I'm accused of lying by some over-emotional twat who has trouble understanding English. :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Minion no. 5 wrote:
Popular with non-programmers.
C# language is at the #6 position in that index, Java #1, Python #4... they are not programmers? Tiobe Index is the most popular comparator of programming languages on the internet, it is cited by thousands of magazines and articles in many years.
Yeah and we told you that their methodology doesn't mean the language is popular IN USE. The TIOBE index is based on search results for keywords. That in no way means the language is more popular in actual use. Am I a hater of VB.NET? No. I started .NET developement in 2001 with VB.NET, using the command line compilers and Notepad. There was no Visual Studio .NET at the time as the .NET Framework was still a beta. I can write code in COBOL (blah!), VB5, VB6, VB.NET, C#, C, C++, C++/CLI, Java, Javascript, VBScript, VBA, ... It doesn't matter what the language is, the money I get for writing in it is still green.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework.
Not only this, They are equivalent in the sense that they both can do the same things with equivalent (almost) amount of code (amount of lines).
And as far as your "equivalent" comparison is concerned, that is no longer the case. Visual Basic is the odd man out in the new .Net | InfoWorld[^] The .NET Language Strategy | .NET Blog[^]
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
And as far as your "equivalent" comparison is concerned, that is no longer the case. Visual Basic is the odd man out in the new .Net | InfoWorld[^] The .NET Language Strategy | .NET Blog[^]
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
Visual Basic is the odd man out in the new .Net | InfoWorld[^] The .NET Language Strategy | .NET Blog[^]
These 2 articles you cited are almost 2 years old (February 1, 2017) . Now (2018) the reality is another, click to see: .NET Core 3 and Support for Windows Desktop Applications | .NET Blog[^]
Article excerpt:
C#, F# and VB already work with .NET Core 2.0. You will be able to build desktop applications with any of those three languages with .NET Core 3.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Visual Basic is the odd man out in the new .Net | InfoWorld[^] The .NET Language Strategy | .NET Blog[^]
These 2 articles you cited are almost 2 years old (February 1, 2017) . Now (2018) the reality is another, click to see: .NET Core 3 and Support for Windows Desktop Applications | .NET Blog[^]
Article excerpt:
C#, F# and VB already work with .NET Core 2.0. You will be able to build desktop applications with any of those three languages with .NET Core 3.
Which has NOTHING to do with C# and VB.NET being developed separately and your comparison of the two being "equivalent".
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
People celebrate when their favorite language goes to top 10 in Tiobe Index, examples: Report: Swift Now Top 10 Language[^] (wow!) TypeScript finally joins the TIOBE top 100[^] (wow!) But VB.NET is raising in popularity in this same index: Visual Basic .NET Populatrity is Raising![^] Interesting that nobody talks about this: VB.NET was in #49 position in 2011 and now it is in #5 position (2018) I received a lot of criticism from people that do not know VB.NET when I made this comment here in CodeProject: Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in July 2018 [^] These people hate VB.NET. YES, after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018, August 2018, September 2018, October 2018) Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. Visual Basic.NET IS NOT the classic VB (Old VB). VB.NET is like C# but a bit more verbose and almost like natural English, so anyone can understand VB.NET code. Current Month Ranking of Languages Popularity: www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
I know why this happened. .net Core 2.1 was announced as supporting VB. So a whole bunch of C# devs thought, that sounds call, I remeber VB. Lets spend a few hours seeing how amazing a programmer I am and do that application I have been doing for months in 1 day in VB. 10 minutes later. Stack Overflow - how to error handle. How do you create string. Why is there no int64. 1 day later, 100 new questions asking "basic" questions because they have never been asked on stack overflow, with people answering and up voting on mass. All this in 2 days. So in comparison, VB.net questions went up 1000% fold (from 1 a month to 1000) Where as c# questions on went up 1% (from 10,000 a month to 10,100) Ah Maths.
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Please, see this hypothetical and valid VB.NET code:
'VB.NET code
Select Case L1
Case Is < 50
If L1 = 42 ThenFor x = 0 To 100 For y = 0 To 100 For z = 0 To 100 L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L) If L1 = 2 Then L1 += 1 Else L1 = 0 Next z Next y Next x End If Case Is > 390 L1 = 0 Case Is = 70 L1 = 32End Select
Now compare with the only way to do the same thing in C#:
// C# code with "Curly Braces Hell"
if (L1 < 50) { if (L1 == 42) { for (var x = 0; x <= 100; x++) { for (var y = 0; y <= 100; y++) { for (var z = 0; z <= 100; z++) { L1 = DoSomethingWithL(x,y,z,L); if (L1 == 2) { L1 += 1; } else { L1 = 0; } } } } } } else if (L1 > 390) { L1 = 0; } else if (L1 == 70) { L1 = 32; }Which is more readable and fun? Do you prefer "Curly Braces Hell"?
1000x times yes. Oh goodness, I'm spending lines, LINES on syntax that explicitly marks the beginning and end of each statement. OH NO, STOP THE PRESSSES, CANCEL C#, READABILITY IS OVERRATED, all bow to the mighty "more lines on screen = good" crowd.
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Popular with non-programmers.
And here I thought every grad student was learning VB.net from day one to graduation! /... Just kidding, they're actually only learning Javascript: the VB of the Web.
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georani wrote:
VB.NET is like C# but a bit more verbose and almost like natural English, so anyone can understand VB.NET code.
I don't care. :cool:
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It still has
On Error Resume Next- so it's still garbage. A popularity contest does not guarantee quality: look at the current POTUS ...Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
