Avant Browser - pros and cons
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It's kind of ironic, but just as we're talking about Firefox rendering issues, Firefox renders your post oddly: clickity[^]. Nevermind, looks like CodeProject is at fault here, as the same thing shows up in IE. Is it because I used the blockquote tag instead of the normal quote? Well, the quote button doesn't work in my current FF version. ;P
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
Naw, FF and CP are both innocent - David just can't get his HTML right... ;P
Calvin's my hero. It used to be Shog but then I saw where he made a programming mistake and admitted it publicly. I didn't know Shog made mistakes so now he's 2nd on "The All Time Hero List" and Calvin is back at #1. - code-frog, Calling Cookie Experts...
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It's kind of ironic, but just as we're talking about Firefox rendering issues, Firefox renders your post oddly: clickity[^]. Nevermind, looks like CodeProject is at fault here, as the same thing shows up in IE. Is it because I used the blockquote tag instead of the normal quote? Well, the quote button doesn't work in my current FF version. ;P
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
No...that's my fault. I'm goofing off with CPhog and I've been screwing up quotes for the past few days. ;P
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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Naw, FF and CP are both innocent - David just can't get his HTML right... ;P
Calvin's my hero. It used to be Shog but then I saw where he made a programming mistake and admitted it publicly. I didn't know Shog made mistakes so now he's 2nd on "The All Time Hero List" and Calvin is back at #1. - code-frog, Calling Cookie Experts...
Shhh...go away. Midas is making life a little more miserable than it should be. I had the damn quote problem fixed...and then I went and borked it again.
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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andy brummer wrote:
If you don't deal with HTML and web development often then IE is just fine.
Can you shed some more light on that. i do a lot of HTML, web development but normally stick to HTML tables and java scripts :) What is the difference ? , thanks "Not everything that counts can be counted..." -Albert Einstein
The issue is that you probably haven't ventured beyond tables and simple Javascript. Once you start using things like CSS 2 (or wishing you could implement something cool from CSS 3) or heavily using the DOM, you'll find that you hate IE.
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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No...that's my fault. I'm goofing off with CPhog and I've been screwing up quotes for the past few days. ;P
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
Ah, good that explains it then. On a somewhat related note, is the "quote selected text" button working for you? I'm running FF 1.5, and when I hit that button, I get a CP message box saying, "You did not select any text to quote.", even though I in fact have text selected.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
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Ah, good that explains it then. On a somewhat related note, is the "quote selected text" button working for you? I'm running FF 1.5, and when I hit that button, I get a CP message box saying, "You did not select any text to quote.", even though I in fact have text selected.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
I don't use the reply page for posting. But yes, the QST button is broken. It looks like there was a regression between 1.0.x and 1.5 in which the selected text was cleared when you clicked a form element. There's a workaround that Shog and I have both sent to Chris...but he's been on vacation for a bit...so it might be a bit before he fixes it.
In the interim...you could always try out Greasemonkey and CPhog. :)
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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I figured FF would come out with a script for that sooner or later. FF uses a hell of a lot more memory than that. I've caught FF using 2 gigs+ on multiple occassions. I open FF when I need to and close it when I'm done. - Rex
Some assembly required. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote:
I've caught FF using 2 gigs+ on multiple occassions
Wow. I've never seen that happen.
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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Naw, FF and CP are both innocent - David just can't get his HTML right... ;P
Calvin's my hero. It used to be Shog but then I saw where he made a programming mistake and admitted it publicly. I didn't know Shog made mistakes so now he's 2nd on "The All Time Hero List" and Calvin is back at #1. - code-frog, Calling Cookie Experts...
Thanks. Hey, does CPhog work with FF 1.5? I'm not seeing the Quick Reply and all that I used to see, although I do see the monkey down in the corner of the status bar. *edit* Nevermind, just had to restart a couple times. It's working now. Awesome little tool by the way. :cool:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
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Thanks. Hey, does CPhog work with FF 1.5? I'm not seeing the Quick Reply and all that I used to see, although I do see the monkey down in the corner of the status bar. *edit* Nevermind, just had to restart a couple times. It's working now. Awesome little tool by the way. :cool:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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andy brummer wrote:
If you don't deal with HTML and web development often then IE is just fine.
Can you shed some more light on that. i do a lot of HTML, web development but normally stick to HTML tables and java scripts :) What is the difference ? , thanks "Not everything that counts can be counted..." -Albert Einstein
Quartz... wrote:
What is the difference ?
Top of my list:
- Leak-free closures
- Combo boxes that can be styled and aren't perpetually at the top of the z-order
- Use XPath on HTML documents
- Web Developer toolbar and DOM Inspector
- Support for handy CSS selectors and pseudo elements
- Better PNG support
position: fixed;- E4X
----- I just want you to be happy, That's my only little wish...
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Excellent points about the UI.
With repsect to your comments about writing error messages and the Reporter...I'm thinking this is a bit different. The Mozilla Foundation isn't really blaming the user...they're blaming the content providers for providing IE only content...which, IMO, is where the blame needs to go. I don't think the blame should go on Mozilla, Apple, Opera, the KHTML folks, or anybody else for not providing rendering engines that act exactly like IE's. Web Devs who ignorantly assume that their user base is only going to hit their site with IE are the ones to blame. And there are ways to minimize the amount of double-coding necessary to support all of those browsers.
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
I hear what you say, but I think my point still stands. In writing an error message (e.g. for a desktop app, and yes, this case is slightly different), you (as the application) take the blame yourself. So, not:
You have specified an incorrect location to save the file.but:WhizzyApp was unable to save the file. The folder does not exist.and I don't see Firefox going that far. They aren't taking responsibility for the problem. In the example above, it's not the application's fault that the user has given a bad location for the file, but the program takes responsibility anyway. It's subtle wording like that that makes all the difference about how applications are percieved, especically by non-technical users. -
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
Yes, and oddly enough, for some reason I'm now seeing the quick reply. I swear, it was not there the last time I ran FF. Maybe I just had to restart it a couple times. X| Thanks.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
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I don't use the reply page for posting. But yes, the QST button is broken. It looks like there was a regression between 1.0.x and 1.5 in which the selected text was cleared when you clicked a form element. There's a workaround that Shog and I have both sent to Chris...but he's been on vacation for a bit...so it might be a bit before he fixes it.
In the interim...you could always try out Greasemonkey and CPhog. :)
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
David Stone wrote:
you could always try out Greasemonkey and CPhog.
Yeah, I had been using it until 1.5, then it seemed to stop working (even after GM 0.6.4). I think I might've had an old version of CPhog though, just upgraded and after a few restarts it does seem to work. I didn't realize Quote Selected Text is different under CPhog. That's great, it does appear to work (as I just quoted you above) :cool: Now, how do I add my sig to Quick Reply?
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Quartz... wrote:
What is the difference ?
Top of my list:
- Leak-free closures
- Combo boxes that can be styled and aren't perpetually at the top of the z-order
- Use XPath on HTML documents
- Web Developer toolbar and DOM Inspector
- Support for handy CSS selectors and pseudo elements
- Better PNG support
position: fixed;- E4X
----- I just want you to be happy, That's my only little wish...
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Quartz... wrote:
What is the difference ?
Top of my list:
- Leak-free closures
- Combo boxes that can be styled and aren't perpetually at the top of the z-order
- Use XPath on HTML documents
- Web Developer toolbar and DOM Inspector
- Support for handy CSS selectors and pseudo elements
- Better PNG support
position: fixed;- E4X
----- I just want you to be happy, That's my only little wish...
If FF has the support for all the latest advanced technologies, why is not compatible with a lot of simple websites out there ? and why does IE Scores there , though its not even near as good development environment as FF ? For a layman, A Web browser should display the web page properly first then only he can appreciate the advantages of tons of feature given by that browser. "Not everything that counts can be counted..." -Albert Einstein
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David Stone wrote:
you could always try out Greasemonkey and CPhog.
Yeah, I had been using it until 1.5, then it seemed to stop working (even after GM 0.6.4). I think I might've had an old version of CPhog though, just upgraded and after a few restarts it does seem to work. I didn't realize Quote Selected Text is different under CPhog. That's great, it does appear to work (as I just quoted you above) :cool: Now, how do I add my sig to Quick Reply?
Judah Himango wrote:
Now, how do I add my sig to Quick Reply?
Copy it from the box on your settings page and then paste it into the signature box on Quick Reply. :)
----- Calvin's my hero. It used to be Shog but then I saw where he made a programming mistake and admitted it publicly. I didn't know Shog made mistakes so now he's 2nd on "The All Time Hero List" and Calvin is back at #1. - code-frog, Calling Cookie Experts...
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Judah Himango wrote:
Now, how do I add my sig to Quick Reply?
Copy it from the box on your settings page and then paste it into the signature box on Quick Reply. :)
----- Calvin's my hero. It used to be Shog but then I saw where he made a programming mistake and admitted it publicly. I didn't know Shog made mistakes so now he's 2nd on "The All Time Hero List" and Calvin is back at #1. - code-frog, Calling Cookie Experts...
Ah, it doesn't save then?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
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Ah, it doesn't save then?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Bought a House! Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Ah, it doesn't save then?
It does. Or at least...it should. Does on mine...
And that's not all. I just discovered this cool concept called "object oriented design". I can't wait to convert my subroutines to class methods! :-D -Ravi Bhavnani on finally installing XP SP2...in December 2005
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If FF has the support for all the latest advanced technologies, why is not compatible with a lot of simple websites out there ? and why does IE Scores there , though its not even near as good development environment as FF ? For a layman, A Web browser should display the web page properly first then only he can appreciate the advantages of tons of feature given by that browser. "Not everything that counts can be counted..." -Albert Einstein
Quartz... wrote:
If FF has the support for all the latest advanced technologies, why is not compatible with a lot of simple websites out there ?
There are a number of contributing factors, but a big portion of it boils down to this: A good number of web pages out there have been designed by people with rather poor technical skills. When you have an error in (say) a C++ program, it might not compile, or it might crash. When you have a bug in a HTML page, it might display oddly. How oddly depends on the underlying design of the rendering engine, and on decisions made regarding how errors would be handled. Here's a very common example:
<div><font color="blue">The closing tags
<b><i> are out of order!</font></i>
And one of them is missing...<div>This is invalid HTML. Both IE and FF do their best to display *something*, and usually they get results that are pretty close... But in some instances, there are differences in the final output. Arguing over which is more "correct" is pointless. The more troublesome inconsistencies spring from practices that, at one time, *were* valid - for instance, pages written for IE 4.x or Netscape 4.x. Many of the features introduced in those browsers were later standardized on and made available by both... but a fair number of them weren't. So a browser-maker has to make a decision: support a feature that has no formal specification and/or is no longer common? Sometimes it's fairly easy - Netscape's LAYER tags were part of a DHTML implementation that was less powerful and more convoluted than the solution finally standardized on: drop it. MARQUEE tags were never standardized on either, but are used heavily in many East Asian sites, and can make them unusable if not supported - so keep support for them. Other times, it's tricky - one of the features of IE4 that is still heavily used to this day is the
document.allauto-array, which can be used to iterate through every element in a document, or choose a specific one by id. It was superseded in v5.0 browsers bydocument.getElementById()and friends, but still persists as a sort of shorthand in a lot of code. The problem is, if a fully IE-compatible implementation of it were put into Mozilla, it might break code written with cross-browser compatibility in mind! This is worse than breaking on IE-only sites, since it does nothing to encourage programmers to write better code, but adds yet ano -
It just doesn't feel right to me. What annoys:
- There's a number of UI inconsistencies (a particular bugbear of mine)
- It doesn't import cookies properly (it broke some "saved logon" sites)
- It doesn't hande CP's menus or quote selected text feature
What really annoys: This is a quote from the "Report a broken web site" feature
This tool allows you to tell the Evangelism Team about web sites that do not work properly in Firefox
The clear implication here is that if Firefox does not render a site properly, it's the fault of the web site. Seems arrogant to me. What I find funny: (from the install log)
Components corrupted (startup): noney‚|
Destination Path:
Main: C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox
SubPath:I got a real giggle from the fact that there's clearly some corruption in the file :doh:
Graham Bradshaw wrote:
The clear implication here is that if Firefox does not render a site properly, it's the fault of the web site. Seems arrogant to me.
Perhaps. But, fairly honest. Probably 7-8 times out of 10, if i find a website isn't working right in FF it's doing something dodgy or down-right stupid. The rest of the time, it's a bug in FF or a missing plug-in. Why is it a good idea to put a bit of the blame on site owners? Because for some sites, no matter how good FF gets at emulating IE's behavior, there are going to be problems unless the site owner is serious about wanting it to work cross-platform. Consider the recent open beta of Windows Live, and the soon-to-be beta of Windows Live Mail: The former took a good deal of flack for launching without proper FF support, and quickly updated to correct it. The latter is planned to support FF by the time it goes public. Maybe i'm just an arrogant, demanding user, but having a site come up working for me is *always* more important than getting a diplomatically-worded blurb in some "report broken page" dialog... ;)
----- Calvin's my hero. It used to be Shog but then I saw where he made a programming mistake and admitted it publicly. I didn't know Shog made mistakes so now he's 2nd on "The All Time Hero List" and Calvin is back at #1. - code-frog, Calling Cookie Experts...
