Why a career in computer programming sucks
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Well I agree. I have to admit I've never met an older programmer in their fifties who wasn't a manager. Programming is largely a young person's profession. And one of the most important things is to keep moving and evoluting to up-to-date technologies. Better technologies usually mean faster development and less reinventing the wheel. Focus on the polish, not the basic features. Even if you are way behind, make a start.
Ben Glancy Software Developer Articad Ltd
:rose: Well then, meet one. Not only am I 57 years old, but a woman, no less! I'm not currently a manager, but have been in that position. I like programming and have never gotten burned out like everyone told me I would. I started programming on an IBM System 34 in 1979, raised two sons, took care of a terminally ill husband and went back to school as needed to stay up to date. I've been through a lot of life and being able to get "in the zone" with my job as a programmer has helped me during times when I just needed to make time seem to go faster. All in all, it's been great and I look forward to making at least another 10 years in some fashion... maybe part time at some point. Programming is like putting together a puzzle everyday. Frustrating and fun at the same time. I enjoy my job! To anyone who doesn't I say make a change... either in your job or your attitude. 2MileHill "Playing small does not serve the world." -Marianne Williamson-
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:rose: Well then, meet one. Not only am I 57 years old, but a woman, no less! I'm not currently a manager, but have been in that position. I like programming and have never gotten burned out like everyone told me I would. I started programming on an IBM System 34 in 1979, raised two sons, took care of a terminally ill husband and went back to school as needed to stay up to date. I've been through a lot of life and being able to get "in the zone" with my job as a programmer has helped me during times when I just needed to make time seem to go faster. All in all, it's been great and I look forward to making at least another 10 years in some fashion... maybe part time at some point. Programming is like putting together a puzzle everyday. Frustrating and fun at the same time. I enjoy my job! To anyone who doesn't I say make a change... either in your job or your attitude. 2MileHill "Playing small does not serve the world." -Marianne Williamson-
I stand told. I was busy being born and breastfed in 1979. But you're cheating because you've been a manager, so you have that in your profile. Something that sets you apart from the bog standard, which is what that guy was saying.
Ben Glancy Software Developer Articad Ltd
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Well I agree. I have to admit I've never met an older programmer in their fifties who wasn't a manager. Programming is largely a young person's profession. And one of the most important things is to keep moving and evoluting to up-to-date technologies. Better technologies usually mean faster development and less reinventing the wheel. Focus on the polish, not the basic features. Even if you are way behind, make a start.
Ben Glancy Software Developer Articad Ltd
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
- Prestige, income, and job security are not my top concerns in life. 2) I love developing software. 3) I don't mind sitting in a cube, because it makes it easier to communicate with other members of my team.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] FYI - Bob is a scarecrow who keeps Chuck Norris away from CodeProject.
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:rose: Well then, meet one. Not only am I 57 years old, but a woman, no less! I'm not currently a manager, but have been in that position. I like programming and have never gotten burned out like everyone told me I would. I started programming on an IBM System 34 in 1979, raised two sons, took care of a terminally ill husband and went back to school as needed to stay up to date. I've been through a lot of life and being able to get "in the zone" with my job as a programmer has helped me during times when I just needed to make time seem to go faster. All in all, it's been great and I look forward to making at least another 10 years in some fashion... maybe part time at some point. Programming is like putting together a puzzle everyday. Frustrating and fun at the same time. I enjoy my job! To anyone who doesn't I say make a change... either in your job or your attitude. 2MileHill "Playing small does not serve the world." -Marianne Williamson-
I'm the youngest in my programming group at 40! The old guys are constantly reminding me out wet behind the ears I am, everyday. These guys have had no problem keeping up with new technologies. The young folk can take a lesson from that, if they are up to the challange. ;P
PreciousPJ
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I disagree. I've worked with many programmers who were 50+. Granted, the ones working for the state were crusty & stagnant, but the consultants/private company programmers were fantastic.
Being a programmer is great. I really do enjoy my work... All the long hours spending in front of my computer... how i neglect my friends and my family... I do have to say that job security isnt so great though. And the pay... well thats another story. I have many friends who have their degrees in computer science and we all make around the $$$ per year. I have some other friends who graduated with business degrees and make way more than I do.. ( even though I was the one to bust my butt )... It's unfair but hey.. thats life... "Cant always get what you want". I dont think that having a career in computer programming sucks. I think a career is what you make of it. And that goes for any job out there. There is always going to be faults with anything you do. You just have to make the best of it and do what you enjoy doing... assuming it doesnt bother or hurt anybody else.. :laugh:
Keep Coding
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Well I agree. I have to admit I've never met an older programmer in their fifties who wasn't a manager. Programming is largely a young person's profession. And one of the most important things is to keep moving and evoluting to up-to-date technologies. Better technologies usually mean faster development and less reinventing the wheel. Focus on the polish, not the basic features. Even if you are way behind, make a start.
Ben Glancy Software Developer Articad Ltd
I am a 52-year-old programmer. I have been a project manager and a team manager but I prefer creating things rather than keeping up with management whims. I'm good at what I do because I have experience in many languages (beginning with FORTRAN) and I can easily adapt my skills to the next "best" choice. Luckily, my last job change allowed me to revert to programming with very little loss in salary. I am valuable to my company because of my variety of languages. I program in VB6, VBA and/or VB.Net every day but I could easily switch back to Java or C# in a heartbeat. The author's article (full version) looks very professional in print but is so full of word-errors (words that pass the spell-checker but are used improperly, starting with "being" instead of "begin") that eventually I gave up on thinking him credible. P.M.
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led mike wrote:
depending on ones political party and/or religion,
That reminds me of the quote, "A man without a religion is like a fish without a bicycle" :-D
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I am a 52-year-old programmer. I have been a project manager and a team manager but I prefer creating things rather than keeping up with management whims. I'm good at what I do because I have experience in many languages (beginning with FORTRAN) and I can easily adapt my skills to the next "best" choice. Luckily, my last job change allowed me to revert to programming with very little loss in salary. I am valuable to my company because of my variety of languages. I program in VB6, VBA and/or VB.Net every day but I could easily switch back to Java or C# in a heartbeat. The author's article (full version) looks very professional in print but is so full of word-errors (words that pass the spell-checker but are used improperly, starting with "being" instead of "begin") that eventually I gave up on thinking him credible. P.M.
I love it when all these younger programmers feel that that just because they where born in an era of more advanced technology, they are in fact more technologically savvy. The truth is programming is as much about, problem solving and dealing with people as it is with writing code. At 51, I enjoy the process, as much as the results.
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I won't agree on this. In our company one very old programmer is working. His age may be more than 55, he may retair with in next two years. Still he is very good C++ programmer, Most of server side programming he is Writing ( He is not managing), still he is writing code. Our programme architecture avh age is 45.
Ravi
I am 74 years old, and having a ball programming VB.NET. I started with FORTRAN (all caps, of course), went through a dozen or more languages over the years (NEAT-3, anyone?). Still learning, still coming to work to try something new. The other day my son, a manager at a very high-tech military-supplying company, was discussing things with his buddies at lunch. Their company had just decided it was worth while to get a couple of their folks up to speed on Visual Studio and embedded Windows. He commented that it was surprising how his programming skills had all atrophied, while his old dad was already a generation ahead and pulling away. Love those embedded systems! JimT
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I am 74 years old, and having a ball programming VB.NET. I started with FORTRAN (all caps, of course), went through a dozen or more languages over the years (NEAT-3, anyone?). Still learning, still coming to work to try something new. The other day my son, a manager at a very high-tech military-supplying company, was discussing things with his buddies at lunch. Their company had just decided it was worth while to get a couple of their folks up to speed on Visual Studio and embedded Windows. He commented that it was surprising how his programming skills had all atrophied, while his old dad was already a generation ahead and pulling away. Love those embedded systems! JimT
You Go, Jim! What an inspiration! What a guy! :-D 2MileHill
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
learning new stuff.
It's great, if you can make time for it. But what really does my head in is how MS change the IDE so much from one version to the next (esp 2003-2005) AND they pretty much lock the IDE to the version of the .NET framework :mad:. Getting *NEW* functionality is great - but having to relear *existing* ways of doing stuff gets on my nerves. But then again, it's only once every 2-3 years that you have to take that leap.
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
CP article: SmartPager - a Flickr-style pager control with go-to-page popup layer.
Ashley van Gerven wrote:
But what really does my head in is how MS change the IDE so much from one version to the next (esp 2003-2005)
:confused: The IDE didn't change that much. It was mostly cosmetic as far as I saw.
Ashley van Gerven wrote:
AND they pretty much lock the IDE to the version of the .NET framework
Not as of Orcas - You'll be able to developer .NET 1.0 through to 3.5 in Orcas.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: SQL Server 2005 - XML and XML Query Plans, Mock Objects, SQL Server Reporting Services... Never write for other people. Write for yourself, because you have a passion for it. -- Marc Clifton My website
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I love it when all these younger programmers feel that that just because they where born in an era of more advanced technology, they are in fact more technologically savvy. The truth is programming is as much about, problem solving and dealing with people as it is with writing code. At 51, I enjoy the process, as much as the results.
Same here. "9. Computer programmers are cubicle employees, not considered important enough to be given nice workspaces." I'm having too much fun to notice my workspace. As long as the temperature is comfortable, I'm good to go. These "computer programming sucks" guys have some good points, but on the whole I'd have to say they are whiners, the type of person that is jealous at the new employee who has new PC with a chip that is 0.4 GHz faster than theirs.
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Well I agree. I have to admit I've never met an older programmer in their fifties who wasn't a manager. Programming is largely a young person's profession. And one of the most important things is to keep moving and evoluting to up-to-date technologies. Better technologies usually mean faster development and less reinventing the wheel. Focus on the polish, not the basic features. Even if you are way behind, make a start.
Ben Glancy Software Developer Articad Ltd
I am 53. I was the young hot-shot assembler/Fortran/C programmer. Also did the manager thing for 20 of those years along the way, but always kept programming. Then I had the bright idea that I could make 80-90% as much money just being a "Senior Programmer/Analyst" doing the fun stuff....programming, with only 30% of the headaches. So now I'm an "old" hot-shot C++(Unix)/C# .NET programmer. (I haven't stooped to Java, yet....we let our friends from other countries do that.) (to age bigots (Half Sigma), old does not mean COBOL and old does not mean "stuck") Meanwhile, this profession has afforded me the luxury of F-U money...I can retire any time I like. If tomorrow I decided I couldn't stand listening to my boss any more, I could just tell him "F-U", call it a career and go get an afternoon tee time. I'm not sure I would encourage any young person I know to go in this direction, A LOT has changed, but it's been a good ride. Joe
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Marc Clifton wrote:
What are you implying? You would like a sentence by sentence response to the longer one? Perhaps a dissertation? I'll get back to you after I get a research grant.
Heh - sorry. I just wanted to know what you thought about ideas such as :- In turn, Americans see an industry full of brown people speaking barely intelligible English, and this further lowers the industry’s prestige. Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. I am only accurately describing the fact that the typical white American thinks negatively of a profession that's predominately non-white. I actually understand what the guy is talking about. But I am not sure if all white-Americans feel that way. A few months ago at the MVP summit, I was surprised to see that a large % of Microsoft employees were of Indian origin. There might be a bit of a social-integration issue if white-Americans feel put off by the sight of a large number of brown people working in a company (any company, not just Microsoft).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkWe're all just jealous we're lacking melanin. :laugh: I think this guy is a voice for a small group. Most of the people I've worked with haven't cared about the ethnic diversity but rather revelled in it. My only concern has been when a manager tells me I should be more like the visa worker who doesn't question anything. Hence I become the nail that gets pounded down when confronting issues. But that's minor. My dad gave me the same line when I wanted to stop for lunch, but his mexican worker didn't complain when not stopping. Minor matter. But truth be told I think that collectively we're the richer for the experience of working with people from different countries. Last job it was 4 Indians, 2 Russians, 1 Vietnamese, 1 Romanian, 1 Greek, 1 Chinese, 1 Palestinean, 2 African Americans, and about 5 Anglo Americans. And it was probably one of the best groups of people I've worked with.
This statement was never false.
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
I can't believe someone would put so much thought and effort into determining why someone else's profession sucks. I wonder if he's a single guy who spends time explaining to his friends how much their girlfriends suck.
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>If you can’t get into a Top 14 law school or a top graduate business school, then public accounting probably provides a >better career path than computer Very much doubt it. After my degree, I started off as a software engineer. I quit the computer profession during the downturn in 2002. Retrained to be an Actuary.(An actuary is like an accountant but with harder exams, more money/respect and easier promotion in the financial world). After almost 4 years doing it I realised I was doing a painfully boring (yet stressful) job that was a bad fit for someone who liked science and computers. I have now changed back to being a software engineer and I must say I find the job A LOT more interesting. Who cares if it means I won't buy a new BMW. My friends and girlfriend even say I'm outwardly a happier person now that I'm doing a job I like again! >Computer programming is a low prestige profession. A lot of people are impressed when you tell them you do this, who cares if not everyone says "wow!". Besides, ALL Engineers have the same problem. People who work in factories drilling holes all day call themselves engineers! >As you get older, your desire to completely relearn everything decreases, so you are likely to succumb to the temptation of >staying with the familiar technology for too long. But this also keeps challenging you which prevents going stale.
I worked in Accounting and almost entered the actuarial field before deciding to move into programming. Accountants don't make all that much and it's a dwindling field. It turns out that a lot of reconciliations, forecasts, etc. that are currently being managed by people can be handled through, EGADS, software. And I agree with you, programming = fun, actuarial science = dullest, driest stuff on earth.
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
I don't see what he is saying as an insult to programmers. I enjoy programming, but I would have to agree that it would be nice if it were more respected, and understood. A set of industry wide standards about how IT should be ran would be very nice, as long as they were made to benefit the programmers. It does get kind of old hearing, "I know this wasn't in the original requirements, but it can't be that hard to change ___Enter change here____.":)
Ben
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led mike wrote:
Sounds like someone needs a hug
Or a kick in the balls! :omg: I'm not sure which.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: SQL Server 2005 - XML and XML Query Plans, Mock Objects, SQL Server Reporting Services... Never write for other people. Write for yourself, because you have a passion for it. -- Marc Clifton My website
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There are points that are very much true: 1) getting older and still working like shit/young/mad donkey :mad: 2) the need to move up or be underemployed is every present danger :doh: I.T business is not like any other business it changes it self faster than the season some one wake up some day and tell the world he has created a website where people can make a shit-online and next day and world start to make shit... but hay do we already make the shit? :laugh: :laugh: Being a geek in non-geek communities/countries make the I.T workers more pissed off and non-satisfied because people don't understand what programmers do by sitting 12 to 18 hours a day on same chair :suss: :omg: :^)
--------------------------- Life is a game... with limited life line and unlimited power! http://www.idlsol.com
Farrukh_5 wrote:
I.T business is not like any other business it changes it self faster than the season
Don't you mean that IT changes faster than some people change their underware.:-D Of course I've met some people where that may actually take a few days. :laugh: