What we say vs. what we mean
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
creating Makefiles by hand.
You are a God amongst men.
The Science of King David's Court | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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Really? Make is nasty but simple. I use it because I can't figure out CMake. They're easy to write if you can get over their use of whitespace, which i hate
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote:
Make is nasty
No more so than many other products. I used it extensively in my working life, and found it had uses beyond simple software builds.
I'm mostly referring to the syntax, and it's about as bad as perl given that it has a smaller surface area. It makes bash look positively readable by comparison.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Me too! .. mostly because it worked well for me in 2003 and googling a makefile takes about 2 minutes, so why change?
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I'm mostly referring to the syntax, and it's about as bad as perl given that it has a smaller surface area. It makes bash look positively readable by comparison.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I mean specifically bad as in poorly designed. Not all syntax is created equal despite your implication to the contrary. Significant whitespace is nonsense, for example, both from a parsing standpoint, and from a usability standpoint. Technically speaking it's Broken As Designed. Same with things that cannot easily be remembered by way mnemonic or anything like that. Make is littered with that. Just like code can be readable and unreadable, so can syntax. A grammar can be well designed, or it can be designed poorly. C# is an example of a well designed grammar. Make is an example of a poorly designed grammar. It is what it is.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I mean specifically bad as in poorly designed. Not all syntax is created equal despite your implication to the contrary. Significant whitespace is nonsense, for example, both from a parsing standpoint, and from a usability standpoint. Technically speaking it's Broken As Designed. Same with things that cannot easily be remembered by way mnemonic or anything like that. Make is littered with that. Just like code can be readable and unreadable, so can syntax. A grammar can be well designed, or it can be designed poorly. C# is an example of a well designed grammar. Make is an example of a poorly designed grammar. It is what it is.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'm using the joke symbol, but this is so painfully accurate it can't really be considered a joke :laugh:
What we say
What we mean
Horrible hack
Horrible hack that I didn't write
Temporary workaround
Horrible hack that I wrote
It's broken
There are bugs in your code
It has a few issues
There are bugs in my code
Obscure
Someone else's code doesn't have comments
Self documenting
My code doesn't have comments
That's why it's an awesome language
It's my favorite language and it's really easy to do something in it
You're thinking in the wrong mindset
It's my favorite language and it's really hard to do something in it
I can read this Perl script
I wrote this Perl script
I can't read this Perl script
I didn't write this Perl script
Bad structure
Someone else's code is badly organized
Complex structure
My code is badly organized
Bug
The absence of a feature I like
Out of scope
The absence of a feature I don't like
Clean solution
It works and I understand it
We need to rewrite it
It works but I don't understand it
emacs is better than vi
It's too peaceful here, let's start a flame war
vi is better than emacs
It's too peaceful here, let's start a flame war
IMHO
You are wrong
Legacy code
It works. but no one knows how
^X^Cquit^\[ESC][ESC]^C
I don't know how to quit vi
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
A dear friend of mine, Richard Jones (now sadly departed), had a notice on his office wall that read "I know you think you understood what I said, but I don't think you understood that I didn't say what I meant" I have no idea where that quote came from.
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honey the codewitch wrote:
C# is an example of a well designed grammar. Make is an example of a poorly designed grammar.
As with most things in life, it depends on your point of view.
A) Try parsing the syntax. Significant whitespace presents real technical challenges to parsers. B) Try remembering the syntax. If it can't be easily remembered, it's always going to be niche**. See also, vi. ** or replaced with something that is better.
Real programmers use butterflies
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A dear friend of mine, Richard Jones (now sadly departed), had a notice on his office wall that read "I know you think you understood what I said, but I don't think you understood that I didn't say what I meant" I have no idea where that quote came from.
Reminds me of "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." :laugh:
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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I'm using the joke symbol, but this is so painfully accurate it can't really be considered a joke :laugh:
What we say
What we mean
Horrible hack
Horrible hack that I didn't write
Temporary workaround
Horrible hack that I wrote
It's broken
There are bugs in your code
It has a few issues
There are bugs in my code
Obscure
Someone else's code doesn't have comments
Self documenting
My code doesn't have comments
That's why it's an awesome language
It's my favorite language and it's really easy to do something in it
You're thinking in the wrong mindset
It's my favorite language and it's really hard to do something in it
I can read this Perl script
I wrote this Perl script
I can't read this Perl script
I didn't write this Perl script
Bad structure
Someone else's code is badly organized
Complex structure
My code is badly organized
Bug
The absence of a feature I like
Out of scope
The absence of a feature I don't like
Clean solution
It works and I understand it
We need to rewrite it
It works but I don't understand it
emacs is better than vi
It's too peaceful here, let's start a flame war
vi is better than emacs
It's too peaceful here, let's start a flame war
IMHO
You are wrong
Legacy code
It works. but no one knows how
^X^Cquit^\[ESC][ESC]^C
I don't know how to quit vi
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
How about "emacs and vi both suck, you feeble penguin-molesting twit"
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Sorry my automated systems failed - you should have a copy of the book in your inbox now. Have a great day!
The Science of King David's Court | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
Sorry my automated systems failed - you should have a copy of the book in your inbox now. Have a great day!
The Science of King David's Court | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
Hi David, yes just arrived, thanks. Having watched the video, I look forward t reading the book.
I hope you enjoy the intellectual journey! Best wishes.
The Science of King David's Court | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
I'm using the joke symbol, but this is so painfully accurate it can't really be considered a joke :laugh:
What we say
What we mean
Horrible hack
Horrible hack that I didn't write
Temporary workaround
Horrible hack that I wrote
It's broken
There are bugs in your code
It has a few issues
There are bugs in my code
Obscure
Someone else's code doesn't have comments
Self documenting
My code doesn't have comments
That's why it's an awesome language
It's my favorite language and it's really easy to do something in it
You're thinking in the wrong mindset
It's my favorite language and it's really hard to do something in it
I can read this Perl script
I wrote this Perl script
I can't read this Perl script
I didn't write this Perl script
Bad structure
Someone else's code is badly organized
Complex structure
My code is badly organized
Bug
The absence of a feature I like
Out of scope
The absence of a feature I don't like
Clean solution
It works and I understand it
We need to rewrite it
It works but I don't understand it
emacs is better than vi
It's too peaceful here, let's start a flame war
vi is better than emacs
It's too peaceful here, let's start a flame war
IMHO
You are wrong
Legacy code
It works. but no one knows how
^X^Cquit^\[ESC][ESC]^C
I don't know how to quit vi
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
In the Before Times, we talked about WYSIWYG(*) being a big deal. (*) What You See Is What You Get With the advent of artificial intelligence and machine learning, it's DWIMNWIS - Do What I Meant Not What I Said.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
A dear friend of mine, Richard Jones (now sadly departed), had a notice on his office wall that read "I know you think you understood what I said, but I don't think you understood that I didn't say what I meant" I have no idea where that quote came from.
A boss of mine actually said that to me once.
