I've done a few here on Code Project: [^] Explorans limites defectum

Dean Roddey wrote: even more ardent support, because they have an 'us against the world' thing going on That's pretty much my point - the question was, who has the most ridiculous fan boys. They're being ridiculous if a language is brand new and still unproven. If a language's been around for 50 years...its defenders at least have a leg to stand on.

That's only doable on certain types of software. In highly user configurable, very broad software products, there's no practical way to do that. And of course we aren't just talking about refactoring. In many cases it will require jettisoning out of date tools that have deep roots in the code base, and/or rewriting large chunks of it that might contains really complex domain knowledge. Explorans limites defectum

So I went back and figured I'd give it another try, just to be fair. I did ultimately find a legitimate though unlikely issue. But, I introduced a bad bug in the process of trying to get rid of warnings, and spent a couple hours trying to figure that out. A lot of the raft of issues it was whining about were just the same ones over and over, because they were in templates and it would spit them out for each use of the offending bit of code. So it was somewhat easier to get rid of them than I thought initially. Though, it's annoying that you don't see the errors until someone uses the code, since it means constantly going back and having to tweak fundamental headers that cause big rebuilds. I have all of these collections set up to pre-instantiate and export for some common element types, but that doesn't seem to enough to make it complain. So it's a bit of a tedious and time consuming process to deal with all of the warning i n those fundamental collection template classes. Explorans limites defectum

Some wifi-router (like fritz-box) supporting the uplink via wifi. Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany

And I'm embarrassed to report that they are from Taiwan, not Japan as I originally said. I'm an uncultured American lout, what can I say? Explorans limites defectum

Tyson chicken strips! Crunchier than ever! Now with metal shavings for that crispy bite that everyone enjoys! Dentist ('s bankaccount) approved!

I wouldn't go that far. You don't have any to use that stuff while still getting a lot of benefits from C++ over C. My system has a fairly minimal set of templates, just where they really add something important. RAII (though I think the concept is much broader and call them Janitors) I use a lot. They are one of the best things about C++. I have janitors for lots of things, not just allocating and deleting things, but setting or changing things on a scoped basis and such. Explorans limites defectum

Obviously I'm not going to write an operating system or anything. There's no practical recourse but to use the OS APIs. I'm not terribly concerned that they are going to be flakey, since we only use the lowest level OS APIs we can, and those are very widely banged on. And they mostly are just APIs, i.e. single calls to do one thing. That's something you can wrap cleanly. What's important is that all of the code on my side of the line be very tightly integrated to the extent that's possible. That means it's all written in terms of my interfaces, participates in my standard system functionality as appropriate, etc... So there's never any 'impedance mismatch' between parts of the code, you never have to translate from this scheme to that scheme, you never have to use inconsistent styles or mechanisms to interact with any of the code, because it is all of a piece. Explorans limites defectum

A compilation?

Dean Roddey wrote: You are arguing about things I'm not even talking about, at all. Then you lost track of what you were saying...you said specifically... "That was NOT partisanship." You went off on a cultural tangent that has nothing to do with what that word means.

But, the other side of that coin, though I hate it terribly, is that everything is pushing us towards rented software and undoing the PC revolution. That means that the back end of the web becomes heavier and heavier. Folk like Amazon are hiring a lot for large scale back end development to support this trend. It takes a lot of software to track everything we do and package it up for sale. Explorans limites defectum

R.I.P

Dean Roddey wrote: It's some of the most insane musicianship and composition It certainly has the merit.

I'd throw in a few intriguing titles, like "5 ways you can throw up better" :P

Actually I've dug into it quite a lot since then, and the more I use it the more I'm gravitating away from it. I get it of course. The memory safety is a huge, almost overriding benefit. But I just hope that these ideas get incorporated into a language I like better on the whole. Explorans limites defectum

BTW, anyone is interested in such things should watch the excellent documentary "Helvetica" which is a history of that ubiquitous type face and parenthetically of type faces in general. Explorans limites defectum

Dean Roddey wrote: Why don't people get that REST sucks for a wide variety of applications Or from my point of view why don't people get that Agile doesn't work for architecture? Dean Roddey wrote: People make a device, and probably make no effort to ask anyone like me what are needs are, They decide that they can deliver the API in 6 weeks or worse 2 weeks, and the "product owner" is more interested in delivery than usability. Not to mention of course that when the implementation phase starts there is in fact no actual requirements beyond "make an API" but certainly no willingness to back off on the delivery. Dean Roddey wrote: So now you have a a bunch of devices out that that you just have to pound relentlessly with GET commands ...make it 'easy' by only allowing the transfer of the entire state of the device It was designed based on what info the implementer had. They didn't have time to make 120 different routines, and QA certainly would not have had time to test it. And probably when asked they asserted they were not even sure anyone would use the API. So you get one API call. Dean Roddey wrote: It's like so many people just don't even think beyond a REST API or HTTP, and throw it into everything, whether it's remotely appropriate or not. Its like people think that 2 week sprints are more than sufficient to plan for an architecture that is supposed to be robust and last for years. An an off hand comment in a meeting several weeks ago leads to a requirement that must be implemented right now. And it certainly doesn't have anything to do with actually determining how it will be used and very definitely there is no time to actually figure that out.

Yeah ... I have enough problems finding knee-room for one. And I always assumed they would use the loo, not just stay where they were. :sigh: Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

Compress your containers into a concertainer. We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.